Episode 75 – Interview with researcher Laura Bibiana Ospina-Rozo

This week we had such a wonderful time speaking with Laura Bibiana Ospina-Rozo, who joined us all the way from her home in Columbia. Laura is a scientist who finds joy in tackling research questions in the field of biophotonics: where light and living matter interact. She completed her undergraduate and masters degrees at the University of Los Andes in Colombia and her PhD in 2022 investigating beetle colours at the University of Melbourne. As a postdoc at the Stuart-Fox lab at the University of Melbourne, she analyzes biological samples combining microscopy and colour-measuring techniques, and spends most of her time talking to people from different disciplines to interpret the results together. Her work has taught her the importance of communicating science in an engaging and efficient way, as well as listening to diverse perspectives around common questions. That is why she eagerly participates in science communication competitions such as the 3MT competition and the Big Science Pitch and also likes being part of the diversity and inclusion committees at the University of Melbourne.

You can follow Laura and learn more about her work here: 

Transcript

Jen (00:00:00)
Hello everyone, I’m so glad that you are here. It is another episode of Let’s Talk SciComm.
I’m Jen and I’m so delighted that my friend, colleague…… I need to think of some more words to describe you, Michael. What else can I describe you as?

Michael (00:00:36)
I’ll think about it and I’ll send you a list.

Jen (00:00:39)
Fellow foodie, fellow runner. We need to think of some more things I can include.
But anyway, how are you Michael?

Michael (00:00:46)
I’m excellent, Jen. Very very good today and I’m really excited for today’s guest.

Jen (00:00:51)
Well, we’re going to start this podcast a bit differently, Michael.
Before I introduce you to our guest, I’ve got a question for you. Are you feeling a bit of pressure here?

Michael (00:00:59)
I am feeling a bit of pressure.

Jen (00:01:01)
Okay, so what we’re going to talk about is the fact that I want you to think about all of the animals, all of the plants, all of the fungi, all of the protists, most of the algae on the planet, these all belong to a group called the eukaryotes. I’m sure you studied biology in your day, Michael.

Michael (00:01:21)
Yep.

Jen (00:01:22)
Now, if I told you that one in four of all eukaryotes on the planet belong to just one type of animal, could you tell me what that type of animal was?

Michael (00:01:31)
I would probably guess like some kind of a butterfly or something but… or a moth, but yeah.
What’s the answer?

Jen (00:01:42)
You’re kind of close. I thought you might say ants, actually.

Michael (00:01:45)
Ooh.

Jen (00:01:45)
But you’re pretty close. So the answer is beetles. And the guest we have joining us today not only knows a lot about beetles. She also knows a lot about light, and she’s here because she’s an absolutely brilliant science communicator.
So today we are joined by Laura Bibiana Ospina Rozo, and I’ve tried really hard to get that pronunciation right.
Oh, I’m getting the thumbs up, awesome!
Laura is a research fellow in the School of Biosciences at the University of Melbourne. She’s an expert in biophotonics. And we’re going to unpack that term shortly.
But welcome, Laura. And I can’t believe you’re joining us all the way from home in Columbia. Thank you for coming!

Laura (00:02:28)
Hi Jen and Michael and everyone, I’m super excited to be here.

Michael (00:02:33)
Great. We’re excited to have you. And you know, I think this is the first time we’ve had a beetle expert on the podcast.

Laura (00:02:39)
Expert wow. Sounds very professional, but…

Jen (00:02:40)
Well, you are definitely an expert, Laura. So you moved to Australia to complete your PhD, which was all about wanting to understand why beetles, or why so many beetles have really striking coloration and patterns.
And for anyone listening in Australia who’s ever seen a Christmas beetle, you’ll know what we’re talking about, this incredible iridescence.
Laura has since finished that PhD, and she’s now a research fellow. And I think before we go any further, we just have to say massive congratulations. Because anyone completing a PhD during the COVID pandemic, I just think that’s a huge achievement.
So there’s a lot we could go into there, Laura, but let’s just say well done, you did it. High five.

Laura (00:03:24)
Thanks so much. Yay, we did it.

Jen (00:03:28)
The first interaction I ever had with you involved creating a column that we publish in our school called “The Humans of Biosciences”.
Anyone who read the column that you wrote got a sense that, yes, you’re a passionate and dedicated and really talented scientist who’s doing all sorts of amazing research. But you also have this whole different persona around you, which is about this amazing kind of appreciation for work-life balance.
And you talked about how much you love to dance, particularly the tango. And the fact that the tango is about communication, not just learning steps. You talked about being constantly curious.
So thank you for joining us. I really can’t wait for us and our listeners to get to know you a bit more today.

Laura (00:04:09)
Oh, thanks so much. Yeah, I do remember that interaction. It was so nice to write that piece.
Yeah. It was so much fun.

Jen (00:04:19)
Everyone, check the show notes ’cause I will put a link to that piece so you can have a read and see some great photos of Laura. But Laura, with our podcast episodes, the way we usually like to begin is to kind of step back in time a little bit and to hear about how you got into science in the first place.
Like if you think about your childhood, where did the passion come from? Was it a person or a place or an experience? You know, were you into science as a kid or did that come later? Tell us a bit about you.

Laura (00:04:47)
My parents are scientists. They are chemists. And my Auntie is a biologist.
And we would spend time like outside, like talking about, oh, how this plant is different than this other plant.And I just really fell in love with how beautiful… You really can see a lot of beauty in the world through science. And that was so fascinating for me.
Like just those little questions. Like why this animal is here or why it looks like this. And then it just grew with time. Yeah, especially towards biology.

Michael (00:05:28)
That’s great. I mean, there’s lots of plants and animals that you could potentially do a PhD on. Why did you pick beetles?

Laura (00:05:36)
I guess because of the color. I just started seeing all these amazing effects.
And I don’t know why I just saw it in different beetles.
And then I just was like, Why do they create all these different effects? And some of them are shiny and some of them look like velvet or white?

Michael (00:06:00)
And what’s this term biophotonics?

Laura (00:06:03)
Ah, yeah. Well, that’s another part of the story.
So my research is generally in the middle between biology and physics, particularly photonics is because it refers to any structure that interacts with light. So that’s how colour is produced and that’s how our world is so colourful and beautiful.
That’s why I was very excited about working in that field right in the middle. I reckon also there’s a lot of… When you combine biology with physics, it’s just wonderful how all these things like can, you know, how an organism can interact with the environment.
Like, it, just a lot of physics in the air, put it in a way. And they have their mechanism to use it to their advantage. So that’s really amazing, I think.

Michael (00:07:03)
Amazing how they know about physics.

Laura (00:07:06)
Yeah, right.

Michael (00:07:08)
I don’t know that much about physics, but you know, the beetles can do it.

Laura (00:07:14)
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s… Actually, when I was in uni, I was like, “I hate physics. I don’t like it, it’s so hard.” But as soon as you realize that all these animals or plants or organisms actually use it to their advantage is when I was like, “Oh my God, no, this is so cool.”

Michael (00:07:33)
Yeah.

Laura (00:07:34)
And that’s why I wanted to like really study something that was in the middle.

Jen (00:07:39)
So Laura, I introduced you and said that you’re a brilliant science communicator.
And I know that firsthand because we got to work together last year when you were selected as a finalist for the Big Science Pitch, which is a competition we run at the University of Melbourne for early career scientists. And you know, it’s not an easy competition.
So you have to get selected in the first place as a finalist. And then you get three minutes to pitch a new research idea. We film that. So you’re doing it to camera, but then you also have to front up and answer questions in front of a judging panel. Three minutes to try and win your share of research funding.
And let’s just be clear, you absolutely smashed it. You won the competition. And that’s no small feat because the quality of the pitches was exceptionally high.
So I guess I’ve got a couple of questions I’d love to explore with you. Firstly, maybe you could briefly tell us about the idea you were pitching because it’s super cool. And cool is a word I’m choosing very carefully there as you’re about to hear.

Laura (00:08:37)
So my idea was related to how can beetles keep cool and how can we use that to our advantage to actually implement similar strategies in our cities.
So in our cities, using active methods to keep them cool such as like air con or something like that is not sustainable. It’s not a green solution. In fact, cities in general are really hot.
And I discovered that beetles can have mechanisms in their shell by which they just, in a way,
these mechanisms act like a shield and they reflect all the extra light, get rid of that. And by doing so, they can keep cool. So if we could take that and apply that to a city, then it would be great because we wouldn’t need some active mechanism to get rid of that extra heat.

Jen (00:09:38)
And so that’s a big idea that has a lot of different parts to it. You know, there’s the kind of the physics, the biology, the urban planning. You know, there’s lots of different parts in it.
When you found out you were going to have this opportunity to secure research funding but you had to pitch it in three minutes, where did you begin?
‘Cause I do… I mean, we have Three Minute Thesis competitions. A lot of people are familiar with the idea of putting something into three minutes, but I don’t think it’s easy. I think it’s worth trying to talk about what the process is to do that.

Laura (00:10:07)
Yeah, yeah, it’s not easy, but it’s very… I guess it’s enjoyable in a way because you get to see your own research from so many different points of view. And then you get to play around with it.
So the first thing you do, or I guess the first thing I did was like define what is my research question and what is the reason why that is relevant for me and for maybe other people.
And then once I had that, I was really having fun just trying to see okay, whether this part is kind of more attractive to people or this other part. Because anyways, there is a part, like I want people to feel happy and excited about beetles, what they can do.
It’s not only about being able to explain the science, but also it’s so cool when I see people smiling about how beetles are really cool, so yeah.

Jen (00:11:07)
And I should have clarified that when I said there’s a judging panel, that that judging panel are not other scientists. It’s a diverse group of people.
So you really are having to come up with this, why is this important and pitch that to the judges. Because this is not about kind of filling a knowledge gap in the literature. This is about solving a real world problem. And I think that’s what you did beautifully because you were pitching a really kind of big idea that’s probably a long way away, but you showed us how studying a beetle could help us in the future. And I think you know, that’s like, it’s a big leap. But you got everyone inspired, your enthusiasm was you know, just mind bending really.

Laura (00:11:48)
Thanks. Thanks Jen.
Well, yeah, in fact, a big part of the process for me was to ask different people about you know, what they think about this idea and like letting them know some things about my research, but also just like wondering, Okay, do you care about this part?

Michael (00:12:07)
Yeah, so you really kind of workshopped your ideas with lots of different people and landed on what is the most interesting and kind of exciting components of your research?
It’s not easy to do for anyone. And you know, especially when you’re communicating in a language that’s not your first language as well.
And your English is excellent Laura. But just wanted to ask you about that. Did you find that challenging, communicating about things that are technical in a non-technical way, but also in a language that’s not your native language? How did you find that process?

Laura (00:12:43)
One of the things that I thought was hard for me when I arrived to Australia was understanding the jokes and the puns.
And I really really wanted to incorporate that. So that’s why I also asked my Australian friends. And even the examples and the language, like it is a challenge, but you can ask people and you’re learning through it as well, so it’s good.
The nuances like are really important for both the everyday communication of science, but also like for writing and for presenting. So I definitely think that is one of the challenges.
And also there are things that only make sense in one language and not the other one. So I often, like I think about something in Spanish and I’m like, this totally makes sense. Then I try to say it in English, it won’t work.
So then I would have to really learn, okay, what is the equivalent? Is it funny? And how can I make it funny or accurate as well, like also important.
Yeah, and that kind of thing. So definitely it takes a while I think to get used to it.

Michael (00:13:57)
I think it’s great. It’s great to strive to include a little bit of humour in your communication if you can.
So was there a phase where you were like trying to work this out? You know, is this funny or not? And there were jokes falling flat or you know, how long do you think it took you to get to that point of going okay, I’m comfortable weaving humor into my science communication here?

Laura (00:14:18)
Oh yeah, all the time. There are so many jokes that still go flat.
Yeah no, totally, all the time.
And like, to be honest, if I want to introduce some humour, I always think there are different kinds of humour. Like for example, citing some funny thing from a movie or maybe just like you know, some kind of fun.
But all of that, I always ask a friend. I always go like, “What do you think about this?” I always test it.
If it doesn’t work, if it’s not that good, then it doesn’t… You know, it’s just not worth it. It’s fine, you just try another one.
If it doesn’t, like if you say it, nobody laughs, then it’s fine, you’ll try again.

Michael (00:15:03)
Yep. Just pretend you’d, pretend you hadn’t tried to tell a joke…

Laura (00:15:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael (00:15:08)
…If no one laughs.

Laura (00:15:10)
But yeah, most of the time, it’s just… People, I heard recently from someone that was talking about science communication.
And they were saying people want you to succeed, so they will support you even in your joke. And I have experienced that, I think. So, yeah.

Jen (00:15:32)
And what you’re saying really points to the importance of community.
Like you were saying before, you know, there’s this weird idea that science happens by a lone person in a lab coat slaving away for long hours. You know, without anyone around them, and it’s the individual having this eureka moment of brilliance.
But we all know that’s not how science happens. It happens by bringing diverse people together, to ask one another questions, to try and see how other people think about things.
You know, I think we have to understand that science is absolutely a group endeavour. It doesn’t work very well when you’re on your own.

Laura (00:16:06)
Totally. I feel like the best part of my PhD and now is when I get to work in a team, talk to the person.
And for science communication as well to, you know, it’s just much more enjoyable to work with someone else. ‘Cause you learn more, there are more points of view. And yeah, it’s never like something that you can do by yourself.
I think I see it a lot in my area because in biophotonics, you always have to talk to people like from different disciplines, and get their point of view, and be very receptive to what they, like the way they will see the same things that you would see in a different way, so…
But that’s when it gets richer and richer, so…

Jen (00:16:32)
Yeah.

Jen (00:16:54)
Yeah, absolutely. And what you’re saying right now reminds me of something that really really resonated with me in that article from a few years ago.
Because you said that one of your passions in life is to try and understand the world through the lives of other organisms.
And you know, that’s kind of why I went into biology, to be honest. I had this strong sense that plants and animals have just as much right to thrive on this planet as we do. But they can’t speak for themselves, so we need to advocate for them.
And one of my favorite parts of my PhD was spending years in a forest looking at the world through the eyes of these possums that I worked with.
And I was just kind of thinking about the fact that you’re so clued into diverse perspectives and seeing the world through different eyes, and you’ve contributed a lot in the diversity and inclusion space within our school.
You know, you’ve put a lot of time into committees and a lot of time to thinking about how we can really embrace diversity.
And I was thinking about, do you reckon being more aware of our own biases and our own kind of narrow ways of thinking as an individual but also as a human, do you think that makes us better communicators?
Because communication is all about knowing your audience. So it would make sense then that the more you can think about your audience being different to you, that that would help you to be a better communicator. I don’t know, does that make sense? Just something you said that really struck me.

Laura (00:18:22)
Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that.
Because if we try to communicate something from only our own point of view. Maybe in our head, it makes sense, maybe it sounds great and we love it, but we don’t know what the audience is reading from that.
And I really think that anyways, at the end, we’re both… Like the person and the audience are going to build something new, ’cause your audience is going to react to something and you’re going to see that and you’re going to like it more or you’re going to see it in a different way.
So it’s always like a construction with your audience. So if you’re aware of your own biases, you can actually like give them more, give them more content to your audience to react to.
And I really think that that helps a lot in science communication, but in everything in general, like being able to like think about our own biases. I think it helps to be able to also listen to what people have to say.

Yeah. And I find that really fascinating, just coming back to the idea that you mentioned at the beginning.
In a way, when we do science, we try to listen to those voices that you mentioned of organisms that cannot just speak for themselves.
So we just keep our minds open and go like okay, even in that way, we’re like okay, I see the world this way, but this organism doesn’t have the same eyes, so they’re going to see something different.
And what does it tell me about the world? That the world is much bigger than what I thought.
And so yeah, I think that makes us, just broadens our perspective and our capacity to do better science and communicate it, I think.

Jen (00:20:19)
Hear hear.

Michael (00:20:21)
Yeah, that’s great. I think that’s a great point. Like I wonder, the fields of research where by the nature of the work that you’re doing, you have to kind of put yourself outside your shoes and see the world from a different perspective, whether that kind of lends itself to improving your communication skills.
Maybe I need to go out and try and put myself in the shoes of some other animal or something now to kind of train that part of my brain. I think it makes total sense to me.
And also from your “Humans of Biosciences” article, you had a quote from the American writer Isaac Asimov, “Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while or the light won’t come in”. Which I think is a really, really interesting quote.
What does that quote mean for you and what do you think we should take away from that quote?

Laura (00:21:10)
When I put it there, I was really thinking about how much I grow when I talk to other people, even in such a small conversation.
I go like wow, I was assuming that the world was like this, but this person is giving me a totally different perspective.
And if we use that in science, it’s like you have just more capacity to really see more perspectives.
‘Cause honestly, as scientists, we’re kind of venturing in the unknown. There are so many, like we are just trying to produce something new or find something new.
But if we only have one view, it’s like we’re just stuck in there. Maybe the explanation is something else or maybe there’s another reason why this structure or this animal does this, you know.
So to get there, it’s better to try to like analyze yourself and be like, or at least that’s how I see it.
I try really hard to be like okay, my perspective is not the only one. And I think by kind of like opening more windows, then we can just get more access to new knowledge, I think.

Michael (00:22:31)
Yes, excellent advice.

Jen (00:22:32)
So much wisdom, Michael.
Have we ever had a podcast episode with so much wisdom in it before?

Michael (00:22:38)
No. We should be taking notes here, yeah.
It is.

Laura (00:22:36)
Oh my God…

Michael (00:22:43)
I’m motivated now to open the windows, but we are running out of time.
We are coming towards the end of the podcast and I do want to open a window into the final segment where we’d like to ask you some lighthearted questions, Laura.

Michael (00:23:04)
So the first one that I would like to ask you is — If you could pick an alternative job to what you’re doing today, what would it be?

Laura (00:23:20)
I would be a dancer.

Michael (00:23:22)
Ah, great.

Jen (00:23:23)
I love it.

Laura (00:23:25)
Yeah, I like dancing. It’s amazing how our body… You know, what our bodies can do.
And learning how to control your body is like Oh, I didn’t know I had that muscle.
So it’s much, it’s really funny and fun.

Jen (00:23:42)
You can already do the brilliant dancing. So my next question then will make you think even further.
If you could choose one superpower to have, what superpower would you choose?

Laura (00:23:53)
Ooh. Oh, that’s, that’s hard. I guess talking to animals.

Michael (00:23:58)
Yeah, that’s a great one.

Laura (00:24:00)
Do all biologists say that?

Jen (00:24:03)
Doctor Dolittle, eat your heart out.

Laura (00:24:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that.
Oh, it would be so much fun.

Jen (00:24:11)
Yeah. Absolutely. Imagine what a beetle, imagine what a beetle would say to you.

Michael (00:24:12)
That would be amazing.

Laura (00:24:17)
Yeah. I mean, what language? Everyone though?

Michael (00:24:20)
And I wonder how long it would take to crack beetle humour.

Laura (00:24:25)
Yes, that’s so true.

Laura (00:24:30)
That would be my project. Then I’ll be like humour for each animal.

Michael (00:24:34)
Yeah. So Laura, if you could go back in time and give yourself a message at the age of 21? What would you say to yourself?

Laura (00:24:42)
Oh, what would I say to myself? I guess there’s still a lot to learn. Don’t worry, and it will get, it will get much more interesting, you’re still growing.
Yeah. So I guess something like that, I think there’s still so much more to learn.

Jen (00:25:08)
And you’ll get to hear a lot of good jokes. So look forward to that.

Laura (00:25:11)
Yeah.

Jen (00:25:11)
Next question. We’ve talked about working with lots and lots of different people and how important that is. What do you think makes a good leader?

Laura (00:25:24)
Oh, I think a good leader I think has the ability to make people shine. So I think a good leader can see what you’re good at and they will help you develop that and use it to really really be the best in that, you know.
I think like not the best in competition with other people, but like just improving yourself because you already have certain, maybe can be a skill or it can be a preference or it can be a passion. But a good leader can see that even before you know it yourself, I think.

Jen (00:26:08)
Agree.

Michael (00:26:09)
That’s great advice. Alrighty. So last question.
What is your top tip for communicating effectively about science?

Laura (00:26:18)
I think talking to a lot of people and not only scientists.
There are a lot of people that are not in science, but are very very wise and very smart, and they will bring more spice to your science, you know.
They will give you some new ideas. That will help in science communication a lot, I think.

Jen (00:26:46)
More spice in your life and more tango in your something. What rhymes with tango?

Michael (00:26:51)
Mango?

Laura (00:26:53)
More tango in your mango. I love it.

Jen (00:26:57)
Oh Laura, thank you so much for joining us today.
Fabulous that you were able to be with us and I just can’t wait for our listeners to hear your, just your great perspective on life.
And I’m so glad that you’re currently having some time at home with your family in Columbia and enjoying all of the wonderful things about being at home, but we definitely look forward to you coming back to Melbourne and continuing with your amazing research.
And yeah, just enjoy the wild ride ahead and when you work out what beetles find funny, please let us know.

Laura (00:27:27)
That’s amazing.
Well, thanks so much for inviting me and for everyone who is listening. Thanks so much.
And I hope you find, you know, something interesting or just funny about our… You know, the beetle humor will take a while.

Michael (00:27:47)
Definitely. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you, Laura.

Jen (00:28:10)
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of “Let’s Talk SciComm” from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I’m Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr. Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:28:24)
And if you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode, we’d love you to share it with your friends and family. We’d love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at Let’s Talk SciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen (00:28:39)
And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast. So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend.
But we’d also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review. Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review and we are gonna keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.
We’re thinking about some merch and we’d also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:29:14)
Ooh, prizes. And if… They sound great. And if you’d like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we’d love to hear from you.
Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com.
And as always, a huge thank you to our production team, Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.