Episode 74 – How to create a scicomm outreach program with Dr Jen Payne

This week we had a wonderful time speaking with Dr Jen Payne about her amazing initiative STEMpals. Jen grew up in a small country town, where the closest thing to scientists she saw was her teachers. She had no idea really what a scientist was or could be. Fast forward to now, where Jen is a research scientist, minimising deadly infections due to antimicrobial resistance.

She is an award-winning science communicator who is passionate about real-world STEM in the classroom. This led to becoming the founder and CEO of a STEM charity the Curiosity Factory, which runs STEMpals. STEMpals is a pen pal program for upper primary school students where each student in the classroom is paired with their very own STEM professional to exchange handwritten letters across the year. This cross-curricular program inspires our next STEM generation one letter at a time. Jen also fosters greyhounds and has represented Australia around the world playing ultimate frisbee.

You can follow Jen and learn more about her work here: 

And here is some important information about sepsis, a fatal condition we discuss on the podcast:

  • Sepsis comes down to TIME, as every hour treatment is delayed, the likelihood of death increases by 4-9%. 
  • TIME can save your life.
  • T = temperature – is it higher or lower than normal?
  • I = infection – may have signs and symptoms of an infection
  • M = mental decline – confused, sleepy, difficult to rouse
  • E = extremely ill – severe pain, discomfort, shortness of breath

Transcript

Jen Martin (00:00:00)
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Let’s Talk SciComm. I am Jen and I am always thrilled to be joined by my very dear friend and colleague Michael. G’day, Michael.

Michael (00:00:35)
G’day, Jen. How are we doing this morning?

Jen Martin (00:00:37)
Your g’days, your g’days are getting so good, Michael.
I’m so proud of you.

Michael (00:00:42)
I have been practising.

Jen Martin (00:00:46)
I can tell, I can tell.
So Michael, we’ve got a really fabulous guest joining us today. And I know that we’re going to have a great conversation because you and I are both really passionate about getting kids excited about science.
We understand the huge importance of wanting to have a next generation of people who are as passionate about science and STEMM as we are.
And today, we’ve got the pleasure of speaking with someone who I think is making a massive difference and a big impact in that space.
So Dr. Jennifer Payne is the CEO and the founder of the Curiosity Factory, awesome name in and of itself. And the Curiosity Factory is a not-for-profit that’s all about doing what I just said, inspiring the next generation of scientists.
So welcome, Jen. We’re so excited that you were able to make time to join us today.

Jen Payne (00:01:37)
Thank you, Jen, and thanks Michael. Wonderful to be here.
I should say g’day to both of you.

Jen Martin (00:01:44)
Well, that’s a good, g’day.
You got some competition today, Michael.

Michael (00:01:47)
I do. Yeah. Well, maybe I’ll have to up my game.
But Jen, very excited to chat with you and curious to unpack the Curiosity factory as well.

Jen Martin (00:01:57)
Woo-Hoo.

Jen Payne (00:01:58)
Well, I’m glad it sparked a little bit of curiosity there. That sounds great.

Jen Martin (00:02:02)
So Jen, you’re a biochemist. And of course, I’ve done a little bit of sleuthing, so I know that you completed your PhD at La Trobe University back in 2016.
And you’ve worked in quite a few different interesting places since then, including six years as a research fellow at Monash University.
But these days, you’re at CSIRO. And you’re a research scientist tackling this huge problem of antimicrobial resistance. And I was doing a bit of reading and a couple of great videos that you’d made that I found on YouTube.
And I kind of felt like this is a topic that we all need to know more about, but it’s also quite terrifying. And I’m not sure how much more I want to know. So we might come to that later.

Michael (00:02:44)
Is it terrifying ’cause we might find out we’ve got fungus on our feet or something?
Or terrifying for other reasons?

Jen Martin (00:02:52)
Other reasons, I think.

Michael (00:02:54)
We were having a chat before we started recording and we started talking about fungus and feet, just for the listeners, so… We have to go back there.

Jen Martin (00:03:02)
We will. So Jen, of course, we want to learn about your science. We absolutely can’t wait to hear all about STEMpals, which is the amazing outreach program that you started.
And that’s all about linking upper primary school students with STEMM professionals in a Pen Pal program, which I just think is super cool. And the name STEMpals, that is just absolutely inspired. So we will come to that.
But first, Jen, we always like to go back a bit with our guests and get a bit of a sense of your journey into science.
Tell us…. Was there a particular experience or a particular person that got you into science? Were you a total nerd as a kid? Like what’s Jen’s science story?

Jen Payne (00:03:43)
Jen’s science story: I’ve been surrounded by people that were always interested in nature. So my parents would go out camping and we’d go exploring the bush.
And then I, actually started when I was 18 months old. So they took a trip around Australia for a good six months. And it said that I learned to walk very quickly because of the joys of spinifex. And you just don’t want to sit down on that and you keep walking.
So yes, some amazing people that I would call my aunts and uncles in air quotes that introduced me to a wide range of different amazing nature and bush of Australia as that starting point of getting into science. And then it just grew from there.

Jen Martin (00:04:34)
Yeah, I think it’s amazing how many of us can identify spending time in nature as children, as where our love of science began. I think nature is just so incredibly powerful.
And I feel so fortunate to be raising kids in a country where that’s relatively easy to achieve. And to think about how it is in many other parts of the world where kids really don’t get to have time in nature. I think it could have a big impact.

Michael (00:04:58)
Yeah, definitely a lot of curious things in nature.
How did you move into the space of antimicrobial resistance (AMR) then, Jen?
I’ve definitely heard about that before, but I feel like it’s one of those things if I, if I look into it too much, you know, I might not sleep very well. It does sound a bit terrifying.

Jen Payne (00:05:18)
Yeah, unfortunately it is. If we go into the numbers, we’re not going to be sleeping tonight.
So we’re looking at like more than 10 million deaths in less than 20 years, so outpacing cancer due to antimicrobial resistance.

Michael (00:05:33)
Oh wow.

Jen Payne (00:05:34)
But that prediction is probably underpowered as we just recently had close to 5 million deaths in 2019 due to AMR. So huge problem facing the world where bacteria develop resistance to our current drugs.
And what I find quite scary about that is though, some of them develop resistance to multiple drugs. So we don’t have anything available on the market to be able to use.
They also then develop this ability to hide from our immune system at the same time. So they’ve got invisibility to our immune system and invincibility to the drugs that we want to use against them. So they’re really superbugs. They take on that name quite well as these super villains.
But I fell into it during my honours and looking at plants and how they defend themselves. So they can’t move away. They’re stuck in the ground and can’t move away from potential harm, but they’ve got this great immune system that protects them from fungal infections. And so I was looking at how they do that.
And then it developed from there into looking at post-defense peptides and how they work and how they have multiple functions in one molecule to be able to kill or activate the immune system in one compound, which are pretty cool.
And so looking at their mechanism of action and it built from there to where I am now.

Michael (00:06:58)
Hmm yeah, fascinating. So yeah, there’s some really interesting science there, but I guess you’re also tackling a really big problem at the same time.

Jen Payne (00:07:07)
Yes, yes. Unfortunately the potential silent pandemic that it is.
So wash your hands, everyone. Sing the happy birthday song while washing them. Plain soap and water works. Let’s prevent those infections before they actually happen.
So that gives me a bit more time to come up with new treatment and prevention strategies. And it’s great.

Jen Martin (00:07:28)
I was so about to ask you…. So what things do you do in your day-to-day life, given the knowledge that you have that I don’t have, and you just answered the question.
I need to sing happy birthday more often, clearly.

Jen Payne (00:07:39)
Yep.

Jen Martin (00:07:40)
So Jen, clearly, you know, you’re tackling one of the world’s biggest problems, I would argue. And you’re obviously a very passionate scientist. You work full-time as a research scientist.
How on earth did you have time to start the Curiosity Factory and what was the impetus there?
You know, not everyone thinks, Oh yeah, while I work full-time here, I’ll just start my own science outreach, not-for-profit too.
Like, tell us about that passion and how you got to the point of deciding to do this.

Jen Payne (00:08:10)
Really? You, you don’t have that side passion of wanting to start up a not-for-profit?
Really? Michael, Jen?

Jen Martin (00:08:14)
No we, we started a podcast instead.

Jen Payne (00:08:15)
Yeah. So it actually started back in COVID, if I can mention that word and not be a triggering word for people.
And I don’t know about you, but being able to go out to schools and being able to demonstrate to them the wonders of science and that sort of thing is always a fun thing to do that we lost during the COVID pandemic.
And so the Pen Pal program kind of started up during that phase of how could we still interact with schools and give voices of STEM professionals into those classrooms.
And it started there. And then it was going to be closed down because it was being run from a university.
And I had seen the impact and the comments from the teachers and that sort of thing. And I couldn’t let that happen based on the impact that it was having and the amazing stories that were coming back from it.
So it meant some long nights and some crazy long weekends as well to make sure that it turned into a not-for-profit, to ensure that we could continue running STEMpals as a program that was having this amazing, life-changing, for some kids that are involved in it so that it didn’t die.
Yeah. So no, I had no intention of starting a charity not-for-profit. But… it happened.

Michael (00:09:37)
Yeah, you kind of started down that route and here you are.
And I bet a lot of our listeners are really interested in this program. And I guess there’s potential for some of them to get involved if they want to.
Could you, you know, speak directly to them and talk a little bit more about the STEMpal program? What does it actually involve, you know, for the kids and for the scientists?
On your website, you say that it’s really all about helping students be who they can see, which I think it’s a really aspirational goal and really worthwhile.
I would imagine it also takes a bit of time and organization as well, but would love to hear a bit more about the process.

Jen Payne (00:10:19)
Sure. So to talk you through it, a teacher gets inspired and wants to incorporate the real world voices of scientists in their classroom. So they sign up their whole classroom. So it means that everyone in their classroom is going to be paired with a STEM professional.
And we do that based on their shared hobbies and interests. There’s a whole heap of hobbies and interests that kids are interested in these days and you indicate whether, “Yes, I’m also interested in Pokemon and board games and I love rock climbing and looking at rock pools
and I enjoy reading and I really like cooking.”
And so from there, I then find you a student that also shares those same interests. And then from there, it goes with a little bit of training so that you know how, what to write, what not to write, how best to communicate with this audience.
And then you get your first letter. So the student writes the first letter, which is always fun because they also include pictures of what they think a scientist looks like.

Jen Martin (00:11:22)
Cool.

Jen Payne (00:11:23)
And there’s some great pictures in there of often old white men in lab coats with beakers and explosions happening.
So we’ve just been getting a lot of them coming in, in the last few days. And they’re absolutely wonderful, these pictures of what they think a scientist looks like.
And what we do with that is then we also do it again at the end of the program. So we use it as a way of evaluating the program with these primary school students of what they think a STEM professional then looks like after they have done the program.
And what we see is that they then start drawing teams of people working together, people outdoors. They even start drawing themselves in those pictures, which is just absolutely so amazing that they then see themselves as being scientists, STEM professionals of the future.
Some of them turn into this amazing comic book strip of a reply of the scientist getting into the drawing.

Michael (00:12:16)
Wow.

Jen Payne (00:12:17)
But that being said, I don’t expect you to be able to draw either.
Yes, no, please, come if you’re wanting to communicate with a kid.
Because what we’re hearing back from the STEM professionals is that it makes them think about their why, really delve deeply into that why of Why am I doing this?
And that curiosity that the kids show and the questions that they ask can really make you think about your science in a different way.
And some of the comments back have been, “Oh, I never considered that before.” And it sparked these new angles for the STEM professionals as well. Changed how they’re writing grants.
Yeah, nifty, the impact that it’s having that I never considered would have been an output from changing and writing to a primary school kid.

Michael (00:13:09)
Yeah, that sounds amazing. And you’ve, so you’ve had 350 students involved and 2500 letters. Have you read every single letter?
I’m curious to know though, are there any letters that really kind of stand out in your mind?
You know, are there any kind of success stories from the work that has been going on so far?

Jen Payne (00:13:31)
Oh, so many. Where to start? Okay. So this year we’ve got over 600 STEMpal letters that are going to be exchanged, 600 pairings that are happening. So there’s going to be a lot more letters that are happening this year. Yes, we do read all of them. It’s a team of volunteers behind the scenes.
Some of the stories that stick out, that… So I guess a story back from a teacher was that they had let me know at the beginning of the program that one of their students was not really engaged and was having a hard time writing their, even their first letter.
And so I was like, “Oh, that’s okay. Just get them to, even get them to draw a picture. That’s fine. Get them to draw a picture and maybe put a few questions on the page and that would be fantastic.”
And so I let their STEM professional know that this was, what was going on and that they had a hard time reading as well and that their literacy skills were not up to the same level as the rest of the class.
And so what ended up happening was that they ended up corresponding in pictures, to start off with and comic strips and that kind of thing of engagement.
But what happened by the third letter was the student was coming up to the teacher going, “When’s my letter coming? I want to write to my STEM professional.”
And that they changed from barely writing a sentence by themselves to writing a full paragraph. So this engagement with not just STEM literacy but English literacy and wanting to be engaged in writing just opens up a whole new world for that student as well. That if you can communicate, there’s so much more available to you.

Jen Martin (00:15:13)
And I, yeah, I would be really certain that for that student there’s been a whole lot of change in kind of self-perception too.
You know, there’s a lot of positive self-esteem that comes from an interaction like that and realizing that you go from thinking, “I can’t do this”, to actually, “I can do this and I’ve done this.” I mean, that’s just amazing.
And I loved what you said before. I often think with kind of mentoring programs. You know, there’s this misconception that the mentee is the one who gets all the benefit and the mentor is just there to espouse wisdom.
And most of the time it’s the opposite. You know, it’s such a two-way street. And often it’s the mentor who learns just as much, if not more, from their mentee.
And I think that’s kind of what, you know, what you would be saying as well, that I bet you anything the STEMM professionals are getting just as much out of it.
And I always say to scientists when I’m talking about communication. You know, if you ever get the chance to go into a primary school and give a talk about your work, do! Because you will find that the kids ask the best questions of any questions you’ve ever been asked.
Like, you know, interact with the kids. It’s the most fun and the most rewarding kind of communication you can do.
So I’m not at all surprised that your STEMM professionals get a lot out of it too.

Jen Payne (00:16:19)
Yeah. I mean, they come in wanting to give back.
But I think they get back, exactly like you’re saying. So yes, yeah.

Jen Martin (00:16:27)
So the thing that really interests me though, is like, there are lots of different ways…
If we see that there’s a problem out there that kids might feel disconnected from the world of science or see it as a place they don’t belong or a place that they can’t see themselves fitting into later for whatever reason. You know, that’s a problem. And I think there are lots of different ways to tackle that problem.
What made you decide to focus on letter writing?
I can see there’s partly, you know, the COVID world. I understand that. But you know, there are lots of things you could have done.
Are you a passionate letter writer from way back? Like what made you decide that letter writing?
‘Cause you know, let’s be honest, letter writing’s pretty out of fashion. Most people can’t even handwrite anymore. We write emails to our own detriment. We spend our lives writing emails. So why, why letter writing?

Jen Payne (00:17:11)
Do you still get excited when you find a letter in your inbox?
Like your actual physical…?

Jen Martin (00:17:14)
Yeah, but no one ever sends me. No one ever sends me any, and that’s a shame.

Jen Payne (00:17:20)
Yeah, but an actual letter. Like, I know they’re out of fashion and that sort of thing.
But that’s one of the thing, the tangible, actually getting a letter.

Jen Martin (00:17:29)
Yeah.

Jen Payne (00:17:03)
And that it’s coming from someplace else in the world and someone sent it to you is always very cool.
But why that was because unfortunately in Australia, there’s a big digital divide in our schools.
So in metro areas, getting access to the internet’s quite easy. Being able to have a conversation like we’re doing right now over a stable internet connection is really easy. But for some remote and regional schools, even having a conversation like we are right now is difficult.
So to be able to allow for better integration of real STEM voices into the classroom and support the primary school teachers as well.
‘Cause what I was really amazed with is that they’re doing an absolutely wonderful job, but they’re expected to teach STEM. Yet, for some of them the last time that they have experienced being taught STEM themselves is back in Year 10.
So how can we help support them to be on top of the cutting edge science that’s going on and integrating it into their classroom? ‘Cause I know, it’s really hard to stay on top of the science that’s coming out.
I don’t know about you. With all these papers coming out, all the new edge and amazing science that’s happening, to be able to teach and integrate that into your classroom [must] be so hard.
So let’s give them the help, support that through a program like this to help integrate it into their classroom in an easy way.

Michael (00:18:50)
Yeah, yeah.

Jen Martin (00:18:51)
Genius.

Michael (00:18:51)
How exciting would that be? I can imagine the scene, you know, when all the letters arrive and they’re being handed out, and it’s hot off the press and it’s from a scientist working at the coalface. And, you know, it’s going to have some interesting information in there.

We are running out of time, Jen. But before we finish, I would like to ask, you know, circle back to effective communication and what you’ve learned about effective communication through this process. And what I’d be particularly interested in is the type of communication that you might be noticing in these letters, when scientists are talking about their science to children, because that can be really really challenging, but also really rewarding.
And I imagine it’s especially challenging for you know, if you’re a scientist and you’re working on like a, a scary topic like antimicrobial resistance and there’s lots of other kind of scary topics out there in science. You know, how do you communicate that to, to kids?

Jen Payne (00:19:51)
So you come down to the why, I think it is like that why question. It’s like, why are you doing this? Why is it important? Where [does] your interest and passion lie? But also feel it, like I feel it with hope when we’re talking about AMR and why I’m working on it.
I do it from that perspective to then help give them ways of how could they become aware of it, but also that they have then ways of going, “Okay, so this is a problem. What can I do myself as well to help with that problem as well?” So give them tools to be able to integrate back with that.
But in general, it seems to be answering that question and thinking about the why. Why are you doing it? Why are you passionate about it? How can you communicate your science and really get down to the nuts and bolts of it? And simplify it in a way that can be put across in a letter with a few drawings?
So it is a challenge. It’s not an easy thing to do. But in some ways it’s really simple. Yeah.

Michael (00:20:55)
Yeah, that’s fantastic. I guess that’s where it all starts, isn’t it? At the why.
So it makes sense to begin a conversation there.
Fantastic.
Jen, we would like to move on to the next phase of the podcast now where we’ve got some light-hearted questions that we’d like to end with.

Michael (00:21:25)
So the first question that I would like to ask you is: If you could pick an alternative job to what you’re doing today, what would it be?

Jen Payne (00:21:33)
I think a park ranger.
So still being able to be out in the bush. Still has that little bit of science and STEM involved, but also then being actively out in the field.
And even that, I guess, the tour guide aspect of it as well. But yeah, yes.

Jen Martin (00:21:53)
I can relate to that. That sounds like an excellent job.
I know rangers work incredibly hard, but I do think it would be rewarding.
OK Jen, next question. If you could pick one superpower to have, what would it be?

Jen Payne (00:22:06)
Oh, I mean, some of them need to come with like qualifications of like, if I want instantaneous like travel, that you’re then able to like not land in the middle of a road or where someone is, I sort of [think] that could be problematic.
But yes, yes, as long as it comes with that qualification of that I know that I’m going to instantaneously travel someplace and land safely at the other end and not end up being smashed by a car? That sounds great.

Jen Martin (00:22:32)
Yeah. Who doesn’t wanna teleport themselves somewhere cool, right?

Jen Payne (00:22:38)
Yes.

Michael (00:22:38)
Hmm, that would be great. Yeah, you could like, go and see multiple New Years all over the world.
I guess you could do that if you had a private jet as well.

Jen Payne (00:22:50)
But just imagine like being able to go “Oh, I would really love some delicious Japanese sushi right now”. So I think I might just go, go there.

Michael (00:23:01)
Yeah.

Jen Payne (00:23:01)
Yeah.

Jen Martin (00:23:02)
Understand. Totally understand.

Michael (00:23:05)
That would be great. You’d have to go to a Japanese sushi spot. That, I mean, if everyone had this superpower, you’d have to go to a spot that wasn’t too popular because you’d have, like, you know, people appearing out of nowhere at lunchtime.
If you could go back and give yourself a message at the age of 21. What would you say to yourself?

Jen Payne (00:23:24)
21? Drink more water.

Jen Martin (00:23:31)
Is there a story here that we need to hear?

Jen Payne (00:23:36)
How much time do you have?

Jen Martin (00:23:39)
You get 2 minutes.

Jen Payne (00:23:41)
2 minutes? So I have recurrent urine tract infections, like unfortunately a large number of the women in our population.

Jen Martin (00:23:51)
Yep.

Jen Payne (00:23:51)
And that can lead to serious health problems. So one time I ended up with it going from, I thought I’ll just drink a bit more water and I’ll flush that bad boy out. But unfortunately it led to sepsis, and so a serious blood infection that ended up being in hospital.
A matter, in a matter of days type of situation where sepsis can be a serious problem where your likelihood of death increases with each hour type situation, if you’re not on top of what those signs and symptoms are and get the treatment that you need, which is antibiotics. So it is kind of ironic.

Michael (00:24:31)
Yeah.

Jen Payne (00:24:31)
That I had an antibiotic resistant infection and led to sepsis and being in hospital for quite some time.

Jen Martin (00:24:38)
Oh gosh, and that sounds really terrifying.
And perhaps more so, because you would have known the risks given your scientific training.

Michael (00:24:39)
Yeah wow, that’s really scary.

Jen Payne (00:24:47)
Yes, yes, it was… But, drink more water in one aspect.
But also get the antibiotics that you need when you need them and be aware of those signs and symptoms, is really important.

Jen Martin (00:24:58)
I think those are excellent messages for all of us, especially the drink more water one.
I think that’s a, that’s a good message.

Michael (00:25:05)
All right Jen, so last question.
You’ve given us some great advice already around communication. But I’d love to just know your, your very top tip for communicating effectively about science.

Jen Payne (00:25:16)
Well, other than know your audience and uhh…
But I guess for where we’ve been talking about today is truly getting down to that nuts and bolts and sharing your passion of the why, I guess, from my perspective.
And what we’ve seen with STEMpals will be knowing your why, being able to explain that simply and succinctly, yeah.

Michael (00:25:40)
Yeah. And I wonder how long it takes people to really reflect on that and, and arrive at Oh, this is the why. You know, I guess for some people it’s easy, but maybe it’s not for everyone. They have to spend a bit of time thinking about it so…

Jen Payne (00:25:54)
Yeah, and really getting down to it. So it’s maybe asking yourself those five whys.
So the: ask yourself one why, then have someone else ask you it again, and again, and again, and again. And hopefully you can get down to maybe what that actually, actually is.

Jen Martin (00:26:11)
Hmm. Yeah, I’m a big fan of the five whys. If you haven’t ever tried that, try this one at home because it can really help uncover your drive and motivation behind things which I think is really powerful. But Jen…

Jen Payne (00:26:24)
Can feel a bit ridiculous.

Jen Martin (00:26:25)
Feel a bit ridiculous? Yeah, but it’s kind of fun ridiculous, right?

Jen Payne (00:26:28)
It is. Yes, yes, that fun ridiculous angle.
It’s like, but I just answered that. What do you mean I need to answer the why again?
Oh, OK, get past the superficial one. OK, I get it.

Jen Martin (00:26:42)
Yeah, it’s about all the layers, isn’t it?

Jen Payne (00:26:44)
Yes, yes. Onions.
And onions have layers.

Jen Martin (00:26:48)
Exactly. It’s all about the onions.
Jen, we’re so grateful to you making time to speak with us. Clearly you have a lot going on. Yeah, I just think STEMpals is a really, really fabulous program.
I definitely want to get involved in future. I can’t wait to have the joy of you know, writing and receiving actual letters, even though I can’t draw. So that’s a bit… to, have to have that as a proviso.
But I just think what you’ve created is such a wonderful program. And I can only imagine how exciting it is both for the kids and the STEM professionals for being involved.
So thank you on behalf of all of us for having this idea, making it actually happen, seeing it through. I’m sure it’s just going to keep growing and growing and growing.
We’ll obviously include details in our show notes for anyone who’s interested in getting involved.
And just congratulations on an amazing program to have started.

Jen Payne (00:27:27)
Thank you, Jen. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, it’s a passion.
So yes, hopefully we can see you both involved in the future and all the other STEM professionals that are listening, we’d love to have you involved.

Michael (00:27:49)
Thanks, Jen. It’s been a pleasure.

Jen Martin (00:28:00)
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of “Let’s Talk SciComm” from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I’m Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr. Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:28:25)
And if you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode, we’d love you to share it with your friends and family. We’d love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at Let’s Talk SciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen Martin (00:28:39)
And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast. So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend.
But we’d also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review. Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review and we are gonna keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.
We’re thinking about some merch and we’d also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:29:15)
Ooh, prizes. And if… They sound great. And if you’d like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we’d love to hear from you.
Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com.
And as always, a huge thank you to our production team, Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.