Episode 77 – Interview with poet Alicia Sometimes

This week we have the immense pleasure of speaking with the brilliant Alicia Sometimes. Alicia is a multi-award winning poet and broadcaster who is deeply passionate about both art and science. She has performed her poetry at many venues, festivals and events around the world. Alicia is director/co-writer of the art/science planetarium shows, Elemental and Particle/Wave. In 2023 she received ANAT’s Synapse Artist Residency and co-created an art installation for Science Gallery Melbourne’s exhibition, Dark Matters. Her new book is Stellar Atmospheres.

You can follow Alicia and learn more about her work here:

Transcript

Jen (00:00:00)
Hello, everybody.
I am jumping up and down in my chair today because I’m so excited at the wonderful guest that we have joining us.
But first, I get to say hello and welcome, and so happy to be with you today, Michael. How are things?

Michael (00:00:36)
Things are great, Jen.
Delighted to be here and super excited for today’s guest.

Jen (00:00:40)
But are you jumping up and down in your chair like I am?

Michael (00:00:43)
My chair doesn’t have that feature.

Jen (00:00:48)
Clearly, we need to get you a new chair.

Michael (00:00:51)
I should try that.
Is that jumping up and down on top of my chair? Okay.

Jen (00:00:56)
We’ll have to experiment later.
But hey, we do have a huge treat in store for us today. And I really can’t wait for you to get to know today’s guest, Michael, who is not a scientist, but yet is one of the most talented and really compelling science communicators that I know. Which is pretty awesome, right?
So Alicia sometimes is a poet, she’s a performer, she’s a radio broadcaster, she’s a teacher, she’s a multi-award winning writer.

If you haven’t yet watched her TEDx talk, I highly recommend it. That was in 2019, and it’s called “Honouring your wonder: observing the world through art and science.” And I feel like that gives you a bit of an inkling of her dual passions of art and science.
And when I say science, specifically I need you to know that Alicia is an absolute devotee of astrophysics.
And her new book, which we’re going to talk about a little bit is called Stellar Atmospheres. Alicia, I absolutely adore your book. Congratulations and huge welcome to Let’s Talk SciComm.

Alicia (00:02:06)
I am so excited to be here. I’ve listened to so many episodes just to have those gems and nuggets that you guys, you know, get out of guests and it’s really important. So thank you so much for having me.

Jen (00:02:18)
And we didn’t even pay you to say that, right?

Michael (00:02:24)
Exactly. And when I watched your TED Talk, Alicia, I much preferred your description of the Big Bang compared to the scientist’s description of the Big Bang.
I often think sometimes scientists, in the way they describe things, kind of miss out on the beauty and wonder of it all. So I really enjoyed that.

Alicia (00:02:43)
It’s funny you should say that, and I appreciate that greatly. And yes, as Jen can attest to, I am full of hyperbole and absolutely over-emotional about science.
But I mean, just think of the poetry, like Niels Bohr said, “A physicist is just an atom’s way of looking at itself.”
There are so many beautiful poetic moments that scientists use.
And the more and more I speak to all kinds of scientists, there’s such an insight into metaphor.
They’ve spent a long time thinking about the story, the history, as well obviously, as a science.
So when they’re communicating to non-scientists like me, I find they’re dripping with poetry.

Michael (00:03:26)
Hmm.

Jen (00:03:34)
What a beautiful image, dripping with poetry. What colour is it when you drip with poetry? I wonder. Maybe it’s multi coloured.

Alicia (00:03:42)
Yes, as you know, I’ve got a tinge of synesthesia. So poetry to me is every imaginable color. It is a palette.
And I really do think that language is so important. And again, you know, I’m not goning to harp on about Niels Bohr, ’cause he was a man of very few words.
But I love the… And it’s in the start of my book, he said, “We must be clear that when it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images and establishing mental connections.” And of course, you know, how amazing is that?
And science has to be obviously, so precise.
And you… Within the science community, and within smaller pockets of those science communities, you speak in very different languages.
And you have that, you know… Zero can mean different things. It can be, the mathematic language, it can slightly differ depending on what stream of science you’re talking about.
Obviously, there’s universal truths and things like that, but I love the fact that language can differ, and storytelling can be so rich in every avenue of science.

Jen (00:05:01)
I just feel like Michael, maybe for this episode, you and I should just sit absolutely silently and just let Alicia talk. Because I mean, how much poetry was there even just in those beautiful descriptions just then?
I mean I, it’s… I feel like our listeners already have a sense of the deep respect you have both for science and language and the magic that you produce when you bring them together. It’s just absolutely beautiful.
And you know, I feel so lucky that I’ve had the opportunity to hear that from you for quite a few years now, because I first got to know you quite a while ago when you were one of the hosts of the Triple R (RRR) Breakfasters, the radio show.
And you know, I had the great pleasure of going in every week and talking about a science story for 15 minutes.
And I, you know, I’ve worked with a lot of different hosts of the show over the last 10 or plus years. And I remember so vividly your interest and the thoughtfulness of your questions.
And I have to say, I do feel guilty now that if I’d known you better then I would have done a lot more astrophysics stories, I think.
I think I didn’t give you enough opportunities to geek out over astrophysics on the show.

Alicia (00:06:03)
No…

Alicia (00:06:09)
Well, it’s so funny you should say that. Because yes, is my bias with astrophysics and quantum physics? Yes.
But the thing I love about you, Jen, and so many other science communicators who spread themselves in a lot of areas.
You’re an expert in some areas, and obviously you touch upon so many areas, and it’s your curiosity and your enthusiasm and your research. So you don’t go into anything blindly.
So when you came on the show or when you do now, it’s great to hear how you sort of pick apart something and think, “How can I communicate that with an audience?”
And you think about emotional ties, visual ties are really important. So you need to paint that picture. You need us to feel what you’re talking about. And you know, then you relate it with those everyday stories.
And I think that’s just genius. And I’m so curious. So you tell me about rocks or possum poo or jellyfish,I’m there, I’m sold. I just don’t do enough of that to be an expert in it.
But I’m curious about the world, so everything is interesting.

Jen (00:07:20)
And I think that just comes across so strongly. And thank you for your kindness.
And you do exactly what I do, but with far more eloquence. Because you know, I’ve been following your successes for many years now.
The prizes, the shows, the awards, the publications, the residencies. Most recently, you had a residency with the Australian Network for Art and Technology, the Synapse Residency. And you worked with astrophysicist Professor Tamara Davis at the University of Queensland.
You know, you’ve done all these things. And just, I’m always blown away by your creativity and your eloquence for sure, the beauty of language that you use.
But also, you have this deep understanding of astrophysics. Which, for someone who doesn’t have that training. You know, you don’t have a PhD in physics. I just think it’s extraordinary.
So we have to start Alicia by asking you, like, what is your relationship with science?

Alicia (00:08:12)
So for me, it was very, very young and walking out, being told what was up at the night sky and then asking a bunch of questions like, why? And then, what’s out there?
And my very, one of my very first questions was, “Okay, if the universe is infinite, why isn’t the sky white? And every star is in every direction, what’s going on?”
And mum going, “Hmm….” And so she sat me down and watched, we watched the Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos” together. And I only caught a few episodes but I just remember thinking, Oh my goodness, this is… I’m so fascinated in this.
But school science was different. And this was sort of the late ’80s and I was a vegetarian. So when they were dissecting frogs, I was squeamish. I sort of balked at it.
I was told women aren’t even in astronomy, who’s really important there. So I thought, Okay, I’m going to do art and science. But it was never, Oh yeah, that’s my career.
I just, who says they’re gonna be a poet? That’s, I don’t, I haven’t met anyone yet who goes, Hang on, I’m gonna be a poet. There’s so many groupies.
But I just knew that I had to do it somehow. And so just by my bedside table, I’d always be reading. And even as many careers in teaching and all these other things I’ve done, I’m always just fascinated in knowing why does something work?
I literally can read physics and it just gives me such joy.

Jen (00:09:48)
How many people say that, right? “I just read physics and it gives me so much joy.”
Obviously for physicists, without question. But for a lot of people, I read physics and it makes me terrified.

Alicia (00:09:59)
I’m certainly terrified.
And see, I think what we’re touching upon today and why your show is so important, what am I reading? Am I reading raw textbooks? No. Oh well, ok my, actually having said that, yes, sometimes I do.
But so what I’m seeing and what I’m reading is science communicators like yourself who have studied something, then put it into the language of the everyday.
So I’m reading science communication. That’s why I’m such a fan of your work. And I am such a fan of scientists because this, I love the communication.
So I love language. And so when someone can tell me why something is fascinating. Why, you know, when I was working with Tamara Davis, why should I care about dark energy? And you know, she’d tell me and I’d be at the edge of my seat. “Oh, okay.”
It really matters that someone is on the other side telling me a story and these books that are out there are incredible. I try to find the poetry in it.

Michael (00:10:57)
Well, something that I’ve heard you say before is that, you know, poetry and science, they’re both trying to tackle big ideas, but just in different ways. And they have like a shared curiosity, which I think is really interesting.
But, you know, I think it would be really challenging to explore the complexities of astrophysics through poetry. That’s not an easy thing to do.
When you reflect on poetry, why do you think it makes such an incredible way to explore a topic like astrophysics, which I think is really challenging?

Alicia (00:11:32)
Yeah, I mean, that’s such a great question.
And I think I’ve said this to Jen before that of course I’m scared of you know, ’cause I, I’m getting the science wrong. I’m oversimplifying things. I’m painting these dramatic pictures, the hyperbole, et cetera.
So I’m really, you know, I always walk that fear line of what am I, maybe I’m adding abstraction onto abstraction. Am I perhaps steering someone really in the wrong direction?
But my main aim is awe and to get someone interested in the story, just to tell that literally the story of spheres say, or peculiar velocities. I know, I’ve said this before.
Just what is it about some of the mechanics of the universe that we can relate back to ourselves? And also why is it important that we study things that are so far away or so tiny or…?
Because it’s our, it is a question of mortality, I’m sure. But it’s just, where are we going? And where did we come from? And to me, this is something that just sits in my psyche. I need to know.
So yeah, I love exploring those things and the poetry in it, it’s just because you can use very particular language.
And, you know, I always give this example. I’ve given it too many times. You know, in “Contact”, the movie with Jodie Foster, where Ellie says that you know, they should have sent a poet when she goes up into space. And you know, she’s an incredible scientist.
Sometimes just those impressions and vignettes that we can leave on people, poetry I find is perfect for that.
But having said that, there’s so many art forms that I’m in love with, whether it’s sculpture or video art or sound art that work well with science.
So I don’t think poetry and science have a particularly unique domain. I think that just any kind of art expression. Because as artists, we’re curious. And as scientists, you’re completely curious and you’re doing the hard work where we’re just coming in and splashing paint all over hard, hard yards of math.

Jen (00:13:45)
Oh, I think they’re both pretty hard work in different ways, to be honest.
And I do, yeah, we do want to ask you a little bit about some of the other kinds of art that you’ve been involved with later.
But just before we move on from talking about poetry, we do have to talk about your new book.
I mean, you’ve had a lot of success over the years with your poetry. You’ve been published in a lot of anthologies, including “The Best Australian Poetry” and “Best Australian Science Writing”. You’ve won a ton of awards, including the Bruce Dawe Poetry Prize in 2020.
So you know, everyone, you know, you are widely recognised as being incredibly good at this.
But I have to admit, I hadn’t read a lot of your poetry until this most recent collection called “Stellar Atmospheres”. And I just love it. It’s been beside my bed, Alicia, and it’s just absolutely beautiful. I highly recommend it to everyone.
So I want to hear a little bit about the book, and I also want you to tell us about the title, because I think that’s important, because one of the things you’ve explored in this book is the role of women in astrophysics, which is important.
But I just have to read a short excerpt from the introduction to the book, which was written by a brilliant artist and researcher, Andrea Rassell, or Rassell. You’ll have to correct me on the pronunciation there.
How do I pronounce Andrea’s surname?

Alicia (00:14:57)
Rassell.

Jen (00:14:58)
Rassell, good.
Okay, just let me briefly read an excerpt, ’cause it’s beautiful.
Andrea says, “When poetry turns its reflective gaze onto astronomical phenomena, concepts, and language, what emerges is a profound connection of science to the human condition, a way of experiencing scientific phenomena in ways that cannot be experienced through scientific perspectives alone. The subjective is acknowledged, unveiled, celebrated.”
Oh my gosh, talk to us about Stellar Atmospheres.

Alicia (00:15:32)
Oh, I just want to talk about Andrea’s work.
She’s…

Jen (00:15:37)
No, we’ll have to invite Andrea on another time.
This is about your work.

Alicia (00:15:41)
Yeah, you should. She’s an incredible scientist and artist.
Yeah, she just has a way with words. And I think she deeply gets me, which is great, and deeply understands that connection of art and science and how there’s a conversation and a dialogue, and an entry into understanding through language.
And that, I think her and I process things where we you know, learn about something, and then we just need to jot it down. She…
I love research. So I love researching something, and then trying to find the story in it. I guess like a reporter, except I’m not relying solely on facts. I look at emotion as well.
And so the book took forever. The poems are mostly over the last couple of years. There’s a couple of old ones in there, but they’re mostly over the last couple of years.
But I’m just a slow, slow person who just like… Yes, I’ve been published in so many journals and everything.
But it’s like, Oh, a book. Well, what if I got it wrong? What if I don’t have that perfect word?
And believe me when I say I was literally editing up until the day before. I’m constantly changing. I’m constantly refining. I’m never happy.
And committing is really hard. So committing something to the page. But I just knew that it had to be a book on science, but also have a personal entry and a doorway as well.

Jen (00:17:10)
And Stellar Atmospheres, the name?

Alicia (00:17:15)
Yeah, it’s based upon a PhD, that title that Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin had from roughly 100 years ago, that she put out her PhD. And her supervisor sort of at the beginning said, “Yeah, I don’t know if this is all right, you know. I don’t know if this is completely true”.
She looked at the spectra of the sun and realised there was more hydrogen than helium. And she certainly did a lot of other work as well. And she was just dismissed a little bit.
And she’s not famous. I guess she absolutely is known within the astrophysics community and even a little outside of that now.
And thanks to social media, I think there’s [some] beautiful stories that have come about. And you know, these lost women of science are really coming to the top because we’re hearing about them more and more, and more people are looking for those stories.
So when I found out about that, I just loved the title. I love the plural, sorry, of atmospheres. I love that. I think that’s poetic.
And some of this work was looking back at science that was done over a hundred years ago. And I just loved them talking about the ether and the nebulous nature and ribs of galaxies. And you know, yeah, it was great.

Michael (00:18:38)
We should totally bring back some of those ways of describing things, I think.
How did you find the process of writing that book?
You know, is it kind of similar to the process that you’ve gone through with some of the other creative works that you’ve done?
Because I know you’ve produced and co-wrote planetarium shows, one called Elemental and one called Particle Wave. They’ve played all over the place, including at the Jena and Tokyo Dome Festivals. So, you know, pretty big deal.
I guess I’m curious to hear more about your creative process around you know, and your approach to writing and directing these sorts of performances.

Alicia (00:19:20)
Yeah. Well, thank you for that question.
The one thing I love doing is collaboration, collaboration with scientists and collaboration with other artists.
And it would be remiss of me to say that those planetarium shows absolutely shine because of the collaboration I did with artists and scientists.
And I love working with the visual and the sound and immersive work.
So that’s why I love installation work too, that you can walk into a space and you know, it just, everything washes over you.
So for me to do a planetarium show on gravitational waves, say, was just to inspire other people and to work with artists and see their interpretations and then my interpretations and talking to the scientists.
And, you know, I’ve said this to Jen before, just getting snippets of scientists being so excited talking about gravitational waves. You know, as if they were talking about their favorite chocolate. It’s like, “Oh my God, you’ve got to understand this bit about it”. And I’m like, “Yes, we do”.
So writing a solo work is always hard. I doubt myself a little bit more, you know. But a lot of research went into it.
I would have loved to have done every single poem being a science poem. But in a way, I think every single poem has an element of science. It really does.
But people just said, “Oh, maybe just a little, little bit of personal in there as well. And I tried to find that balance. But there was always science that poked into every poem, so that’s okay.

Jen (00:20:16)
And Alicia, I’m interested because, you know, you’re an artist who has your finger in a lot of different pies. There’s a lot of things that you’re involved with.
And you know, so you’re not just kind of the you know, romanticised idea of the poet who’s sitting at home on their own all the time writing. You know, you’re out there doing things.
So you’ve got these sort of multimedia performances that you’re collaborating on and directing. But then you also go to a whole lot of events and festivals and perform, you know, spoken word performances. You present your poetry.
And there’s two things I’m really interested in.
One is how does it feel to get the opportunity to speak your words rather than relying on somebody at home reading it in their own head with their own emphasis?
Because to me, that’s two very different things.
But I guess also putting my audience hat on. You know, I also want to know, you know, how do you prepare for getting up and performing in front of large audiences and how do you manage your nerves?
And yeah. So I know that’s two kind of different questions, but I’m really interested in both of them.

Alicia (00:21:57)
Yeah, and I can see especially for your listeners, why they’d be interested in that as well. So they’re very good questions.
I started out as a performer. I didn’t mean to perform. I was just doing professional writing and editing. And someone said, you should get up and do some poetry.
And I thought, I’m not going to just read because that to me at the time wasn’t interesting to me. So I got up and played bass and had a cellist and had this full band.
And I did that for years actually, played and did spoken word with musicians. And then I did surf, punk music as you do, just for fun.
But so the performer in me was first and it was very different work that I was writing because I was really thinking of it in an oral tradition of storytelling.
So for me, the musicality, every beat, every moment, the whisper, you know. The shout, the playfulness of language was important to do in an oral sense. So I could connect with audiences.
Then I got into obviously a lot of writing for the page as well. And you try to bridge those two.
And so now I come at it, you know, much later in life and I’m more nervous when it’s work that I’ve had on the page.
Because also when I’m performing, I do you know, a bit of funny and I can… When I’m nervous especially, I say things that just are the first thing that comes out of my mouth.
You know, I start talking about my uterus or something. I don’t know, I just, I can’t, I just can’t help it. You know this about me.
But the book is very, very serious. And although it’s got maybe some light moments, it’s really, really serious. And I think sometimes I’ve pushed that and denied that part of myself. So it’s good to play around with that.
How I prepare is I think you’ve really got to know your work back to front to let it just breathe. So know it and know it and know it and then go back and then have that confidence to communicate.
I used to know every single poem off by heart and I don’t have that brain power at the moment. But that doesn’t matter either.
Some of the best poets I’ve ever seen, like a Dorothy Porter, would read from the page but with such classical force and passion. And I think those things matter.
So whether you’re a scientist or a poet, it’s so important to know what you’re talking about. And then you can let go of that and improvise even or just be confident in your own work.
And I think you really have to know yourself a bit.

Jen (00:24:46)
Hear hear. Beautifully said.

Michael (00:24:48)
Yeah, definitely.
It kind of, it makes me wonder that you know, sometimes when you’ve got creative pieces, part of the beauty is that it’s up to the audience to interpret it for themselves.
And I guess when you are standing up there performing it yourself, you kind of have to take on the role of you know, this is how it should be interpreted.
Yeah, how do you feel about that kind of taking that stance and saying this is how it should be interpreted? Do you find that a challenge or how do you think about that?

Alicia (00:25:22)
Yeah, I find that interesting because even if I get up in, I really like what you’re saying that it’s my interpretation and I can give it a very passionate performance or a funny performance or any kind of performance.
But what I find especially with poetry, and you may find this as science communicators, that people will take their own story anyway.
And sometimes with, whether it’s abstract concepts or abstraction in poetry, people are only taking a sentence here, a moment there, a word there, a concept. And they can’t possibly take everything in at every moment. It’s just too much.
So what do you want to leave people with? And that’s really important. And that’s why really distill your stories.
And this is why I find poetry great, is you distill it to a moment, into an idea, into just this big concept that I’ll leave you with.
And you think of like a Brian Cox or a Katie Mack or, you know, a Jen Martin, what you…

Jen (00:26:29)
I don’t think I belong in that sentence.

Michael (00:26:30)
You do.

Alicia (00:26:29)
No, no, you do.
And what you do is you just leave us with a story, something that we can go away and just go, “Oh, yep, okay, I understand now.”
So you know, whether it’s okay, dark matter, holding things together or scaffolding, you hear of nexuses and webs and you know, fabric of space and things like that.
Those sort of almost become cliches because they’re so important to how we can visualise things. And they mightn’t get it exactly right. Like, is space a fabric?
But we can then all come together and see it.
And so I think that it’s really important as science communicators and poets to just leave people with an impression.
And then that way they can go away and read more about it or learn about what you’re talking about, but they’re not gonna take everything in. They just, you’d break someone’s brain.

Jen (00:27:29)
We don’t want to do that.

Alicia (00:27:31)
Whereas just someone who gets it slowly up to the mic [and] is like “Jupiter. Let’s talk about Jupiter”. And you’re like, “Oh my God, I’m there, I’m sold.”

Michael (00:27:43)
Yeah, I want to know more about Jupiter now.
But yeah, I guess you know, what you’re saying, it’s about bringing people into your world and just showing them around a little bit, but not revealing everything.
So we are running out of time. But before we let you go, we would like to switch to our rapid questions. So just some quick questions, quick answers.

Michael (00:28:13)
The first one that I’d like to ask is: If you had to pick an alternative job to what you’re doing today or alternative jobs, what would it be?

Alicia (00:28:25)
What would I do? If I had another lifetime, I literally would go back and study astronomy ’cause I’m just so in love with it and I just really didn’t give it the time when I was younger. And it’s, I just can’t do it now, there’s too many other things going on.

Jen (00:28:40)
It’s all right. You’re sure to get another life. So next time you’re fine.

Alicia (00:28:43)
Yeah, that’s right.

Jen (00:28:44)
Maybe this will lead into the next question. If you could choose one superpower Alicia, what would you choose?

Alicia (00:28:42)
The ability to be articulate at all times. Because even though I have moments of it, I can be so inarticulate.
So I’d wear a t-shirt that said, Miss, you know, Articulate. See, I didn’t even say that articulately. Miss, you know, Articulate.

Jen (00:29:13)
I love it. What a great superpower.

Michael (00:29:15)
That would be a great superpower.
If you could go back in time and give yourself a message at the age of 21 and a very articulate message. What would you articulate?

Alicia (00:29:30)
That there’d be such a thing as podcasts and that in the future you get to hang out with very cool people like Michael and Jen, just to, just to…
I would just wish I had a bit… You know, relax. You will communicate with people and it will be okay and do whatever else, you know, be confident.

Jen (00:29:52)
It will be okay. I think that’s the message we all need to tell ourselves every day.
‘Cause you know, one day we’ll be 80 and we’ll be saying “What do you wish you told yourself 30, 40 years ago?” It’ll be like, “It will be okay”.

Alicia (00:30:03)
And my bikini would have looked great. I didn’t think so at the time.

Jen (00:30:10)
OK, next question. What do you think makes a good scientist?

Alicia (00:30:15)
What makes a good scientist?
So many scientists I’ve spoken to, whether it’s you know, I remember speaking to Brian Green about string theory and he’s like, “If it’s not true, I’m over the moon”.
Because you know, something he spent his whole life dedicated to, because it means there’s a definitive answer.
And I think that it’s about the, being true to the science and not something that is full of their you know, to do with their ego or whatever.

Jen (00:30:40)
Yeah.

Michael (00:30:40)
That’s a great answer. Hear hear.

Jen (00:30:42)
Well, I think what you’ve left us with is a sense of how articulate you are, even if you won’t own it.
This must’ve been one of your particularly articulate moments and also just the you know, the deep love and respect you have for science.
And I just feel the world is you know, such a better place for having somebody with your artistic skills falling in love with science.
So thank you and congratulations on your most recent book. It really is stellar! Ha, just as a little pun there.
And thanks so much for making the time to join us, Alicia. It’s so great to speak with you.

Alicia (00:31:18)
Oh, my pleasure. It just couldn’t be nicer just talking to you both.

Michael (00:31:21)
Thanks so much, Alicia. Been an absolute pleasure.

Jen (00:31:42)
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of “Let’s Talk SciComm” from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I’m Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr. Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:31:57)
And if you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode, we’d love you to share it with your friends and family. We’d love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at Let’s Talk SciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen (00:32:11)
And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast. So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend.
But we’d also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review. Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review and we are gonna keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.
We’re thinking about some merch and we’d also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:32:47)
Ooh, prizes. And if… They sound great. And if you’d like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we’d love to hear from you.
Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com.
And as always, a huge thank you to our production team, Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.