Episode 78 – How to get into the business of science communication with Brendon Bosworth

We’re ending Season 10 on a high, chatting with Brendon Bosworth in Cape Town, South Africa. Brendan is a communications specialist and science communication trainer who runs Human Element Communications. Brendon’s goal is to make research on topics of global concern, such as climate change and sustainable development, more accessible to non-specialists.

After working as a communications officer on a large international climate change adaptation project in 2018, and as a journalist for more than 10 years before that, Brendon decided he wanted to work with scientists to build their communication skills. He partnered with Dr Tali Hoffman (director of Honeyguide Science Communication) to develop a science communication training programme, ‘Communicating Science for Impact.’

Since launching the programme in 2020, he and Dr Hoffman have trained over 300 people from institutions including UNEP, FAO, the University of Cape Town, the University of Ghana, the University of Nairobi, and the University of Saskatchewan to communicate about science with non-specialists more effectively.

Brendon is a Fulbright scholar with a master’s degree in Journalism from the University of Colorado Boulder. In his previous life as a journalist, he wrote about everything from ocean acidification to mental health, with some surf travel writing in between.

He is also a photographer whose work has been featured in exhibitions in South Africa and abroad.

As a consultant, Brendon has provided writing, editing, and communication services to clients including UN-Habitat, CARE, the Global Center on Adaptation, and the World Urban Forum.

You can follow Brendon and learn more about his work here:

Transcript

Jen (00:00:25)
Hello, everybody. What a delight to welcome you to another episode of Let’s Talk SciComm, I’m Jen.
And as always, I’m joined by my wonderful friend and co-host and colleague, Michael.
Hello, Michael.

Michael (00:00:38)
Hey, Jen, it’s great to be here as always.
I’m very excited for our international guests that we have today.

Jen (00:00:44)
I know, it feels a bit strange, doesn’t it? ‘Cause you and I most often record in the mornings or kind of the early afternoons, depending on the time zone of our guests.
But it’s actually kind of evening. You know, it’s dark outside. It feels a bit exciting. We don’t often record at this time, but that’s because we have a guest from a very different time zone today.
I’m pretty excited to catch up with this guest. He’s an absolute science communications superstar who I met at the symposium that I had the great joy of attending in Venice last year.
As we’ve already said, pretty tough place to have to go to for work. But I had the pleasure of meeting Brendon Bosworth there in Venice.
And he is the principal consultant at Human Element Communications, which is actually a consultancy he created himself in 2018.
And we definitely recommend you go and read a bit about Brendon, have a look at his website. There’s an interesting video there. There’s some blog posts.
And you’ll see that the goal of Human Element Communications is to make research more accessible to non-specialists.
So the sort of work that Brendon offers is things like helping with report writing, developing online material that’s engaging and interesting, which let’s face it, not all online material is.
Offering communication training workshops, which we particularly want to talk about today. Translating research with a focus on impact and a whole lot of more you know, more things aside from those.
And Brendon had done quite a lot of things before he created his consultancy, as you would expect, pretty brave to start your own business.
And we’re going to ask him all about that. But he’s a Fulbright Scholar. He’s got a master’s degree in Journalism and Mass Communication from the University of Colorado Boulder.
He worked as a journalist and an editor for many years. He was the communications officer for a big international project, which the acronym is ASSAR. And I’ll have to check I’m pronouncing that correctly.
But that stands for Adaptation at Scale in Semi-Arid Regions. And that was working in both African countries and in India.
Brendon, I could go on and on. You’ve done a heap of cool stuff.
But I’m just so excited to have you here. Thanks so much for joining us all the way from Cape Town in South Africa.

Brendon (00:03:02)
Great Jen and thanks to be here and excited to chat with you and Michael today.

Jen (00:03:07)
Yeah, we’re pretty excited to have you. You and I, I think I threatened when we were in Venice that I would really like to interview you. And I’m excited it’s actually happening.

Brendon (00:03:16)
Yeah. Good to be here. And like you said earlier in the pre chat, it does feel like we were in Venice the other day. Although, it was quite a few months ago now.

Michael (00:03:27)
Great to have you Brendon.
And I missed out on that Venice trip. I’m very jealous. So don’t talk about it.

Jen (00:03:34)
What, you mean we shouldn’t talk about all the lovely…? You know, I won’t do that, that would be mean.
So Brendon, just to start, you’ve got a real interest in the environment because I know as part of your journalism degree that you also earned a graduate certificate in environment and policy and society.
And on your website, you say that the particular area of science that you want to make accessible to non-scientists are those of global concern.
So I guess I’m thinking sustainable development, the biodiversity crisis, climate change, some of these really big things.
And so it kind of led me to wonder, we love… You said you’ve listened to a few episodes, you might have gathered that we love to start chatting with our guests and finding out how they first got involved with science.
So I’m wondering with you, did your love of science begin with the environment? Is there a particular place you love or a person that you spent time with in a special place? Like what was it that ignited your interest in science?

Brendon (00:04:34)
Thanks, Jen. So I grew up surfing. My dad got me into surfing at around age seven. I grew up in two small coastal communities in Cape Town. And so being in the water, being in the ocean has always been a big part of my life.
After university, I was like you said Jen, doing a lot of reporting work. I was working as a freelance journalist here in Cape Town.
And I was covering loads of things, anything really that would pay the bills for someone who’s just finished university. So I was writing about music, about culture. I was writing about public health.
I was, as a surfer, also doing a lot of writing about surfing. At that time, I was really into traveling for waves, writing about those kinds of journeys.
But then, of course, through that I also got into writing about marine issues, which affect ocean users and surfers.
And one of the stories that stands out for me there was a story that I did on water quality, looking at whether sewage was being properly treated before being pumped into the ocean.
Of course, this is an issue for surfers at certain beaches. If there are high E. coli counts and things like that you can get really sick.
And that sort of reporting really spoke to me, obviously because it was something I cared about as a surfer. But then I also enjoyed interviewing the scientists who were looking at these issues, looking at the data, doing analysis and that kind of number crunching.
And then at the same time, I was dating a person who was studying oceanography. And through her, I got this window into the world of science, which I hadn’t had before, I studied in the humanities.
And she, as part of her studies, went to Antarctica on the South African Research Vessel, the Agulhas. Jen, I know you’ve been to Antarctica and have a lot to share about that.
But she came back from that trip after a couple of months. And I just remember looking at her photographs and hearing her stories from the work she’d done down there and being absolutely awestruck.
And also realizing, Wow, the science thing is cool. And I actually, you know, at that time, I was also, I was young. I was trying to work out my path in the world.
And I think I had a little bit of an existential crisis thinking, Wow, I should have studied science. The science thing is great.
And at that point, I even thought about actually going back to university and doing a BSc degree. But I chatted to some people who are older than me for some life advice and thought things through.
And I thought, I’m not sure about the time for that and if it’s what I really want to do. So let me use my existing skillset to get closer to science and environmental issues.
And at the time, I also was looking to spend some time outside of the country. And I applied for that Fulbright Scholarship, which really did feel like a long shot. And I was fortunate to get it.
And I went to the University of Colorado Boulder to do a master’s program there in journalism. And what’s great about that university is that they have a dedicated center for environmental journalism.
So while I was there, I learnt about environmental reporting. I learnt about science writing. And the key takeaway for me from that experience of studying was that you can write about science without being a scientist.

Jen (00:07:53)
Yes, absolutely.

Brendon (00:07:53)
And yeah, since then… There’s been a whole lot of other twists and turns, but you know, the long and short of it is that after my experience in the States, I came back to South Africa, got involved in journalism again, writing about various environmental issues from green building, efficient buildings, sustainable urban development, sustainable development, climate change issues.

Michael (00:08:15)
Yeah, that’s fascinating. I guess you were really following your passions there and great that you were able to get that international experience and then come back to South Africa and then continue working in the field, doing a lot of important communication work.
And then I guess at some point you decided that, Okay, I’m going to leave the security of my job that I have now, and I’m going to set up a business. And that must have been a difficult decision to make.
I’d love you to expand a little bit more on what was that like, you know, especially since a business in science communication can be kind of hard to imagine. It could look like a number of different things. So how did you approach that decision?

Brendon (00:08:58)
Just to say firstly that the security thing for me… Pretty much most of my career worked as a freelancer or an independent. So I’m quite used to not having that security that comes with a permanent position.
And I was mulling over this idea of offering a training program. And it was exciting to me because it was something new, but I also realized that that was something that I couldn’t do by myself.
So I approached my colleague at the time, Dr. Tali Hoffman, who is a zoologist by training. She has a PhD. She also works as an independent consultant now.
And I said to her, “Look, I want to run this training. Would you like to collaborate with me?” And I’m so fortunate that she said yes, because we worked so well together and we got some funding to do a pilot training.
And now I’d envisage this as being a in-person workshop, maybe two days, sharing some basic skills about how do you do an interview with a journalist, how do you tell a story, et cetera.
But then COVID arrived. And yeah, it just, like you know, turned everything upside down. No more in-person workshop for us.
But we had this agreement, we had this budget. So we decided, Okay, let’s pivot here. Let’s turn this into an online training. And I think somewhat naively, I said, “Well, we’ll just shoot some videos and put it together and build a course quickly.” Which as you probably know from your work with media is often a bigger project than you expect.
But those circumstances with COVID, you know, we were at home, lockdown, actually gave us the time to really just sit down, write scripts. You know, sit in your bedroom, shoot your video, create the video content.
So that resulted in us having an online training that we have on a learning management system and then running facilitated sessions over Zoom.
And if I look back on it now, that time was such a blessing and a curse. The curse, of course, was COVID and how it impacted all of us.
You know, people lost loved ones, it impacted our mental health. But it also pushed the shift to online. And for us, it gave us this product that we could quickly scale, which we wouldn’t have been able to do with the in-person work.
So following that pilot, we ran another training and then subsequently by word of mouth got referrals for new clients and quite quickly managed to offer our training internationally.
We ran it with the University of Saskatchewan in Canada, and we now work with the UN Environmental Program, for instance, with people from all over the world.
So I’m grateful for that ability we’ve had to offer our work internationally. And it was a sort of pivot that was unexpected.
But I think the point is that it shows when you’re working independently, when you’re starting a business, you need to be ready to make those pivots to deal with the reality that’s in front of you and see what you can do, given the constraints.

Jen (00:11:57)
Yeah, what a fantastic example of having an idea and then all of a sudden the idea is clearly now impossible for reasons completely outside of your control, but then actually discovering the silver lining.
I want to ask you more about the business. But just before I do that, I’m really interested. So you said that in South Africa, scientists aren’t really given the opportunity to develop communication skills.
And as you know, from conversations you and I had in Venice, you know that that’s exactly the gap that I identified as well. And that’s the training that we now offer at Melbourne Uni.
But you know, having worked with scientists for so long, Brendon, what do you think are the most important skills that scientists actually need to develop in terms of communication?
Like what are the key things that you are trying to teach scientists in your training?

Brendon (00:12:45)
So the first one is, who am I speaking to? What are their needs? What are their values? What are their priorities? And what do I want to tell them and why?
So that is the foundation from where we start with our training, looking at communication strategy and your communication goals and really trying to understand your audience.
And then for me, and the name of my company probably gives you a bit of a hint at this. The human element is so important to me.
In my journalism training we learnt to, when you’re going to interview somebody, even if I’m coming to interview an academic at their office, might not sound like an exciting environment to do an interview.
But while I’m sitting there listening to that person speak, I’ll be looking around. Is there a picture on the wall of, I don’t know, a family member or are they standing in front of a volcano? What book do they have on their bookshelf?
Are they wearing an interesting tie or jacket, T-shirt? I’ll ask them about that. Sometimes that question can tell you so much about who that scientist is, that will help you to build that character and communicate about who they are and why they do the work that they do in your article.
And then solutions, solutions-oriented communication is important to me too.
So many things happening that can make you not want to get out of bed in the morning. We don’t want to shy away or sugarcoat any of these hard truths about what’s happening in the world, but people need solutions.
They need a hopeful narrative. They need some guidance on actions that they can take to do their part and make those as concrete as possible for your target audience so that they feel empowered about something that they can do after they’ve heard your talk, heard your presentation, watched your video.

Michael (00:14:33)
Yeah, it’s really interesting. I really love hearing you speak about human connection and you mentioned there being in the office of a researcher and looking at what’s in their environment, and you can get some insight into what drives them perhaps or some insight into the human connection by asking them some of those questions.
But is that also something that you encourage scientists to think about in your training to find say, the human connection in the research that they’re doing?
How can scientists go about doing that? What advice would you have for people to find the human connection in their own science?

Brendon (00:15:13)
Yeah, Michael, it’s… I think the one thing that I like to teach people about is to explore their own personal narrative.
So that can be sitting down and asking yourself the what, why questions. And tied into that personal narrative thinking is also to think about the sorts of challenges that you’ve overcome as a scientist.
I think this can be difficult for people because it also ties to vulnerability. People don’t like to always speak about the tough times or things that were hard for them.
But when we’re an audience listening to somebody speak, we identify with challenges because we all have our own personal challenges, whether we’re scientists or not.
So I think sharing that personal narrative, that personal story, and also not shying away from sharing some of the challenges that you faced and how you’ve overcome those can bring some of that human element in.

Jen (00:16:06)
It’s so great hearing you speak about this, Brendon. ‘Cause you’re verbalizing things that I kind of know about myself and my experiences with science, but perhaps I haven’t quite had explained that way before.
Because I think what drew me away from being a researcher and drew me towards science communication was the human stories, really. You know, I was more interested in the people doing the research and why they were doing it and what they were experiencing and learning than I was in you know, in the actual science per se.
And I think you’re right. I mean, humans are fundamentally interested in humans. And I think that’s a way to draw people into science who perhaps haven’t realized that they might be interested you know, in those human stories.

But what this all makes me think is AI. Because you know, AI to some extent is taking the humanity out of the world, out of science.
And [it] was really interesting. There’s a blog post on your website that you wrote quite recently which I read, and it really made me think.
You were talking about deep fakes and elections and the fact that we’re all going to have to cultivate this mindset where we trust nothing, essentially.
So I’m interested, firstly, is AI something that you think about a lot in terms of science communication and where we’re going?
And obviously, you know, 2024 is this huge year globally. There’s so many elections going on. Deep fakes are a real thing.
Like how big a risk is AI? Is trust in science just going to be something we can never get back because we can’t trust anything we see or hear anymore?
I mean, how petrified should we all be about where AI is going, do you think?

Brendon (00:17:50)
It’s a big question, Jen.
I am very interested in AI. And one of my main interests is how AI is going to shift the way that we make sense of our world and make meaning because of this issue of not being able to trust that this digital representation of something is a reality, or at least in terms of how we’ve understood reality up until this point.
Interesting, I posted recently on LinkedIn. Microsoft recently launched just a demo of a new tool they have where it is possible to create a digital avatar.
So a version of me or you, essentially a deep fake, just using a still image and a short clip of audio.
So I posted their video of one of these outputs, one of these avatars on my LinkedIn, and spoke a little bit about this, about how I’m concerned about what this means for how we make meaning going forward.
And so many people have responded to that post. It made me think that this is something that people are concerned about. And I think it’s all happening so quickly.
So (a), not everyone’s keeping track of it. And then (b), when you do dip your head into the news about this, you feel like wow.
You know, two years ago, ChatGPT came out, but now it seems almost just sort of quaint that you’re typing text in and getting text answers and you can create these avatars and clones.
So… But at the same time, I also see the possibilities for the use of these tools to enhance learning. I’ve seen people on LinkedIn giving a presentation and then creating a digital avatar that now gives the presentation in Spanish or another language. So there’s that, accessibility.
There’s things like maybe you’re really shy or you have challenges with speaking. You have your avatar do it for you. So there’s pros and cons to all of this.
And it depends on the day how I’m feeling, whether I’m optimistic or, or terrified. And I think we can be a little bit of both. I think that’s the sort of reality we’re moving into. We need to grapple with the uncertainty that is here.

Michael (00:20:05)
Yeah, it’s interesting to think about what are the implications of AI tools for communication or science communication going forward.
You know, there’s an argument to be made that if you look at the progress and you know, where that’s headed, that you can basically get AI to do more and more of the type of communication that you know, you would have had to do.
If we get into the realm of deep fakes, you can get AI to do a, an online presentation for you, to speak for you. It’s not just about writing. And I guess there are advantages to that.
But one disadvantage I feel strongly about is the process of going through, forming your own ideas and you know, writing something yourself or preparing a presentation yourself really helps align your thoughts and improve the quality of your ideas.
And if you outsource that to AI, then you’re gonna be missing out in the long term. That you know, the quality of your ideas will suffer.
And I don’t know, maybe like is the risk there just as a human race, we’ve become less creative and less expressive. And yes, so I think that could be a challenge associated with AI.
But you know, so it’s kind of a cautionary tale. Like it is a useful tool, but what are the risks?
And are the risks that we think are risks, are they the most important risks or is there some unknown risk that we just haven’t realized yet?

Brendon (00:21:36)
And I think there’s something almost a little bit sad for us when we talk about humans and human connection because of this. These ideas that we’ve explored today in the podcast about connecting and telling stories and sharing our emotions. These are things we’ve been doing for centuries. It’s how we have created meaning and understand each other in the world.
One of the things that I feel not, at least with the current state of the AI tools that are out there. For instance, I sometimes get emails that I can see have been written by AI.
And I know that that saved the person who sent it to me a lot of time. But I also get the sense of this, there’s a bit of hollow, hollowness to it.
It’s a sort of generic expression that doesn’t… And an email of course, you know, sometimes an email is two sentences. But there’s something that’s lost there to my mind from the human creativity.
And I think we may see more of that and we’re just going to have to see where it takes us.

Michael (00:22:29)
I wonder, as another possibility, you know how…? I guess maybe handmade stuff now is kind of like a boutique craft thing that you know, you might pay more for a handmade toy versus a toy made by machines.
You know, maybe there’ll be a market for creative works that are a hundred percent human designed and there’s been no AI involved.
Maybe it’s about putting out a statement with your communication that I did this myself, didn’t get ChatGPT to make this for me or whatever it is.

Jen (00:23:03)
We’ll be able to charge a premium for podcasts and books and things that have actually been created by humans.
Maybe we should put that out with the podcast, Michael. No AI was involved in the making of this podcast.

Michael (00:23:15)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Jen (00:23:24)
It took our own time and energy and effort, trust us.
Oh dear. Brendon, we’re nearly out of time.
But I do just want to briefly touch on the fact that I know you’re also a very skilled photographer. It gave me great joy to see you in Venice, taking time to take some beautiful images.
Given that background, how important do you think visuals are when it comes to making science accessible for non-specialists?
You clearly have an artistic bent. Is you know, are visuals very very important as well?

Brendon (00:23:52)
Absolutely. I think the visuals are key. Powerful photographs can really tell a story and invoke emotion.
And I’m a huge fan. Just for listeners, if you haven’t already, and you work in the climate change space, please take a look at the Climate Visuals Project, which is a project by Climate Outreach.
They have an image bank of fantastic photographs showing climate change, solutions, impacts. You know, they’ve got, resourced their seven principles for effective climate change imagery, which I often go back to when we’re designing our training, or if I’m looking at visuals for reports. So I think those photographs are key for communicating.
Jen, we were speaking a bit pre-show about things also like how you know, climate change for so long has been almost pegged to images of polar bears, penguins, things like that.
And of course those, not to discount the importance of those animals and so forth. But there are new images, new stories that can be told, especially with a solutions focus that are out there, and there’s some photographers doing great work. So yeah, Climate Visuals’ a great resource.
And then just quickly on the visuals, like infographics and things like that. The key thing for me there is again going back to simplicity, sort of the less clutter, the less involved, the better.
Make sure you’re thinking about your target audience there and communicating with clear and easy to understand visuals.

Jen (00:25:19)
Hear hear.

Michael (00:25:19)
Yeah, that’s great advice. Yeah, keen to go and check out those images as well.
But we are getting towards the end of the podcast, and I would like to switch gears now a little bit to our rapid fire questions. So quick questions, quick answers.

Michael (00:25:45)
First one that I’d like to ask you is if you could pick an alternative job to what you’re doing today, what would it be?

Brendon (00:25:52)
Yeah, I think I would probably want to do something that involves researching the mind and consciousness. So neuroscientist, neuropsychologist, something like that.

Jen (00:26:03)
I thought you’re going to say professional surfer.

Brendon (00:26:06)
Too late for that, Jen.

Jen (00:26:09)
Well, maybe this would be the answer to my next question, then. If you could choose one superpower, what superpower would you choose?

Brendon (00:26:15)
Teleporting.

Jen (00:26:16)
Anti ageing?

Brendon (00:26:16)
Oh, no. Yeah, maybe, maybe. That also might be a possibility in future with AI.
But no, teleporting would be great. So I could just travel to anywhere I needed to in a flash.
I could have come and done this podcast with you in person, in Melbourne, which would have been great.
We could have had a cup of coffee, caught up, and I could travel to go surf in Indonesia or somewhere else.
And the great thing would be that I could do all of that without any carbon emissions.

Michael (00:26:41)
Oh yeah, that would be great.

Jen (00:26:43)
It is Friday night in Melbourne right now.
So I think we’d be having a beer while we had this conversation.

Brendon (00:26:48)
Great.

Michael (00:26:49)
Yeah, and the listeners can’t see the surfboards that you have in the background there.
We’re looking at a variety of surfboards. They look real to me. I don’t think they’re deepfaked. So I do believe you.

Brendon (00:27:04)
I promise they’re real. They’re not just to try and look cool.

Michael (00:27:10)
Alrighty, Brendon. If you could go back and give yourself a message at the age of 21, what would you say to yourself?

Brendon (00:27:18)
Yeah, just believe in yourself and believe that it’s going to work out.
I think that’s such a challenging age, the world’s in front of you.
And for me, I certainly wasn’t confident in myself and what I had to give at that point.
So I’d like to give myself that. Yeah, just that support.

Jen (00:27:36)
When you develop your ability to teleport, make sure you also include a time machine and then you can go and give yourself a high five and say, “Brendon mate, you’re doing great.”

Brendon (00:27:46)
Sounds good.

Jen (00:27:47)
Next question. What do you think makes a good leader?

Brendon (00:27:51)
Empathy, I think empathy is important.
So understanding about how the people that you’re leading are feeling, what they need from your leadership.
And listening, being able to listen to them.
And then also decisiveness. I mean, being able to make decisions following your gut on the decision being the best decision at the time and then following through with it.

Jen (00:28:11)
Beautiful. I’d be happy to work under you one day Brendon, no problem.

Michael (00:28:15)
Final question, Brendon. I’m really curious to hear about your insights from the communication training that you do. And if you could pick one top tip for communicating effectively about science, what would it be?

Brendon (00:28:29)
I think I come back to that foundation that myself and Dr. Hoffman start within our training is strategy.
Know who you’re talking to as best as possible. Try to understand what they need, what their priorities are and how you can communicate with them in a way that is accessible and on their level, helps you to achieve your communication goals, but also gives them the information that they need and the information that connects with what they care about.

Michael (00:29:00)
Great answer.

Jen (00:29:01)
You’re speaking our language, Brendon. I feel like if we could all be together and run some sessions together, they would be supercharged because we are absolutely on the same page.
And yeah, I hope one day I’ll get to come and maybe have a surf with you. But even more so listen to yeah, how you work with people.
‘Cause I think I have every… Yeah, I’m very confident that you would be a remarkable person to learn about communication from.
So thank you for joining us on a gorgeous sunny day in Cape Town. We’re really thrilled that we managed to make the time zones work and that we could catch up like this.
So thank you for coming on the show and yeah, just fabulous to hear the work that you’re doing.
And I hope we’ll stay in touch for many, many years to come.

Brendon (00:29:44)
Great Jen, thanks so much for having me here.
And yeah, it’s so good to connect again.
And Michael to meet you after listening to you on the podcast a lot.

Michael (00:29:52)
Oh, thanks Brendan. I hope I live up to your expectations.

Brendon (00:29:55)
Absolutely.

Michael (00:29:56)
Pleasure chatting with you and enjoy the surf later today.
I presume you’ll be going out.

Brendon (00:29:55)
Absolutely. I hope so.
As I said to Jen, I’ve got a few deadlines to knock off, but this evening we should get something, yeah.

Jen (00:30:26)
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of “Let’s Talk SciComm” from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I’m Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr. Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:30:40)
And if you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode, we’d love you to share it with your friends and family. We’d love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at Let’s Talk SciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen (00:30:55)
And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast. So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend.
But we’d also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review. Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review and we are gonna keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.
We’re thinking about some merch and we’d also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:31:30)
Ooh, prizes. And if… They sound great. And if you’d like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we’d love to hear from you.
Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com.
And as always, a huge thank you to our production team, Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.