Episode 85 – How to make science funny with David Crisante

This week we absolutely loved speaking with highly skilled communications coach David Crisante. David has had a career in journalism, political speechwriting – including for Australia’s Foreign Minister –  and science communications. These days he helps professionals to master storytelling techniques so that they’re more effective when communicating with stakeholders.  David is founder of the Sydney Comedy School, where students discover their unique communication styles and how they can be more confident and charismatic, in public speaking and in everyday life.

He is the director of Future Science Talks, and in 2024 he took his Science Comedy Program around Australia, training hundreds of scientists in the art of using humour to build rapport with audiences.

David’s career history includes reporting for the ABC and SBS, as well as an international correspondent in Tokyo for several years, where he specialised in reporting on the nuclear disaster of 2011. He was a political and crisis response specialist for Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.  David has managed a wide array of PR crises, such as international kidnappings, pirate attacks and the disappearance of MH370.

You can follow David and learn more about his work here:

Transcript

Jen (00:00:22)
Hello, everyone. I am so thrilled to welcome you to another episode of Let’s Talk SciComm, my favorite place to be.
I’m Jen and as always, I’m joined by my most excellent friend and colleague, Michael.
Hello, Michael.

Michael (00:00:37)
G’day, Jen. How are you doing?

Jen (00:00:40)
I am well, thank you. And I’m loving the g’day.
I always like it when we get an Irish g’day in there. It was very good.

Michael (00:00:46)
I never know when I’m going to say it. It just comes out, but yeah.
It means it’s going to be a great episode, Jen. I am very excited for today’s guest.

Jen (00:00:55)
Yes, well today, we are being joined by a man of many talents, I have to say. David Crisante has a degree in communications, which was focused on journalism and international studies.
But since then, he’s gone on to do a ton of different things. I really enjoyed reading up on David, a really diverse, interesting career.
So he worked as a journalist here in Australia for the ABC and the SBS, which listeners will have heard us talk about both of those before. But then he was also a foreign correspondent in Tokyo for a while. He’s worked as a media manager and a crisis communications manager with the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
But then he’s also done all sorts of interesting roles in media relations, marketing, partnerships for a whole heap of interesting organizations.
And this is sort of where I see science coming in. So World Wildlife Fund, the neuroscience, sorry, Neuroscience Research Australia, the New South Wales Rural Doctors Network, iCare New South Wales. So lots of interesting roles.
But then in 2022, David founded the Sydney Comedy School and Future Science Talks. And these are all about running workshops, comedy events.
Future Science Talks, which we’re going to talk about a lot on the episode today, is focused on improving public speaking and storytelling skills in scientists and other technical experts using comedy.
And David, I can tell you, you are so talking our language. I can tell that we’re going to get along very well. So thank you for joining us.

David (00:02:28)
Thanks Jen and Michael, for having me in for the very warm introduction. It’s very kind of you.

Michael (00:02:33)
Ahh, it’s a pleasure to have you. A warm introduction is what we need on a freezing cold day like today. Is that a joke, David? Does that count? Is that funny?

David (00:02:44)
We’re laughing. So yes.

Michael (00:02:46)
OK.

Jen (00:02:48)
So David, I need to let you know Michael is in charge of all of our puns and dad jokes. And Michael, there is a lot of extra pressure on you today. We have a comedy expert in the room. I hope you’re going to do us proud.

Michael (00:03:00)
I should have brought my joke book along, but I did forget. So if I don’t say anything funny, that’s probably the only funny thing I’m going to say.
I just, I’ll lower your expectations. You know, the secret to happiness is lowered expectations, right? So I’ll lower your expectations.
I might throw a joke in later on. We’ll see how it goes.

David (00:03:18)
I mean, I appreciate that, but the fact that you have a joke book means that the expectations have been significantly raised.

Jen (00:03:26)
Oh Michael.

Michael (00:03:26)
I shouldn’t have revealed… Yeah, I shouldn’t have revealed the existence of my joke book. Now you all know.

Jen (00:03:31)
You need to learn to just, you know, reduce the level of disclosure here, Michael, I think.

Michael (00:03:37)
OK.

Jen (00:03:38)
Anyway. David, I really want to hear about your career path because reading up on you, I was blown away by, you know, a real diversity of people that you’ve worked for and roles that you’ve had.
And I guess when I see a career path like that, I really want to know what drives you? What were you looking for in all of those different roles that you’ve taken on?
And I guess where I’d love to get to is how did that eventually lead to you wanting to help scientists to be better communicators?

David (00:04:07)
Yeah, that’s a big question and not one that I often get to answer. So thank you for that.
Look, I was born with a disability. So I couldn’t walk very well when I was at school. I got teased a lot, especially in primary school. And I had a couple of operations where they broke my leg a few times, twisted it around.
And I went into high school and nobody could really tell that.

Jen (00:04:27)
Wow.

David (00:04:30)
And I sort of had this dark past behind me where you know, I used to get picked on a lot, but people didn’t know when I was in high school.
And I felt like I’d been given a second chance that if I was born in a country where I wouldn’t have had access to that medical care, or if I had parents that didn’t ensure that I was, I got the treatment that I needed, that I you know, I would have had a pretty awful time as an adult. And I was hyper aware of that.
And so you know, when I was reaching years 11 and 12 and I wasn’t quite sure what to do, you know, as every 17 and 18 year old sort of goes through, I thought I’m good at writing.
So can I help other people to have the same experience as me where they at least get the playing field leveled for them?
And the way in which I thought that I could do this was by being a journalist and giving people access to information that would help them to make informed decisions, right?
Because I, you know, I sort of got my legs back and it was up to me to use them how I wanted to use them. I didn’t want to push people in a direction. I just wanted to give them the same level of access that I had. And it was my way of doing that.
And so for about the past 20 years, I’ve been chasing different mechanisms to help people just have a level playing field, whatever that might be.
Part of that made me realize that there are all these other great people out there that are doing these fantastic things.
And maybe my role can actually be to help them to do what they’re doing and enable them through communications and public speaking to connect more with audiences.

Michael (00:06:07)
That’s really interesting.
And what is it about comedy that you think is a really effective way of doing that?
You know, how did you come to combine these two areas of science and comedy?

David (00:06:21)
Well, one thing that I can be quite guilty of is trying to educate or lecture other people, right? Trying to explain things to them. And the reality is as an adult, unlike children, we don’t necessarily like things being explained to us.
And one thing about comedy is it forces us to see the world through the audience’s eyes. And if we can do that and we can connect and resonate with them, we can make them laugh.
It’s not possible to, for me to do comedy that the audience doesn’t understand. They simply won’t laugh.
So if I’m chasing the laughs, I need to actually get into their head. And then what the nice thing about that is once I’m able to see the world from their perspective, I can then see my subject matter from their perspective.
And I can begin to link my subject matter to the way in which they see the world and get some nods and get some understanding and that shared understanding. And then I can go deep with what I want to explain.
But too often with me personally, but also with people that I work with, we get up on stage and we want to just explain and explain. And we haven’t connected yet with the people that we’re trying to explain it to.
So if they don’t see themselves in what we’re saying, or if they don’t see themselves in the story that we’re putting out there, how can we expect them to support what we’re doing? Or how can we generate a change within them or a new perspective?
So the nice thing about combining science and comedy, we frontload the jokes, right? The first two minutes of these talks is a lot of laughs about the topics, stereotypes, even stereotypes about the speaker, you know, how the audience might see the speaker.
And that, those stereotypes about ourselves are often things that we don’t love speaking about. For example, how we look, our accents, our background, our story, whatever it is that they’re noticing straight away.
But if we can demonstrate, Yes, I know that you see things of me, but there is so much more to me, so much more to this story than the stereotypes. Actually by getting them to nod that yes, you’ve seen the world from their perspective, now they’re open and ready to listen to all the rest.
And that’s where humor is so effective because apart from anything else, we can demonstrate to the speakers that the audience really understands what they’re saying because they’re laughing.
So it’s an immediate feedback loop and it’s incredibly powerful for the speakers to have the audience basically turning into putty in their hands through the use of humor.

Jen (00:08:41)
Yeah. I mean, it just sounds so incredibly powerful. And I love your description of what’s driving you, both you personally and your personal story, but also this idea that researchers who might not easily get the opportunity to be visible and be in front of an audience. You know, they work really hard and why do they work hard? Because they wanna make the world better.
We ask our students every semester. You know, “Why did you get into doing what you do? Why are you in science? ‘Cause you’re sure as hell not gonna get rich or famous.”
And inevitably, you know, they all respond with, “‘Cause I wanna do something useful in the world. I wanna make you know, I wanna make the world a better place for people or I wanna help this particular animal or you know, whatever it is.”
And the idea that helping people to understand how to connect with audiences better, that’s you know, that’s incredible, powerful.

But tell us more about how it actually works, David. Because talking about stereotypes, stereotypically, scientists are not funny.
And the idea of putting a scientist up on stage in front of an audience looking to be, you know, to be made to laugh. You know, that sounds pretty hard.
So tell us a bit about your process. How do you find the researchers? I know you provide them with a lot of training. Can you give us kind of any insight into how you go about helping people to feel like they might be comfortable trying to be funny?
And you know, we’re talking high stakes here. I know that people that you train perform at real events. You know, the Sydney Comedy Festival, the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, Fringe Festivals. You know, these aren’t little science nights off in a pub.
Yeah, tell us, how does it work?

David (00:10:06)
There’s so much in that question. So first of all, what’s really interesting is the stereotypes are wrong. Yeah. Scientists are funny. Everybody’s funny.

Jen (00:10:14)
Of course. Especially Michael.

David (00:10:21)
It’s about… And yeah. So giving people the tools or breaking it down. Like we’re funny with our friends and with our family, yeah? Like everyone knows, they know how to make their close, the close, the people closest to them laugh. So how then do we make strangers laugh?
And there’s formulas and techniques that we go through as part of the program that works really well with the academic or scientific mind. Because we get A, we add B and that equals C, which is laughter. Like it’s as basic as following a formula.
And once you give it to them, sometimes, often we actually need to get them to scale it back because they just deploy it again and again and again. And what’s interesting is often at the beginning through this program, we actually, they lean much more heavily into the humor than they do about the narrative about their own research.
And often our feedback early on is that’s great, can we include a bit more science and research into your talk, right? So that’s how hard people go.

Jen (00:11:24)
Interesting.

David (00:11:27)
And it’s really really… You know, it’s a delight and joy to see.
And I think one of the interesting things about science and researchers in particular is traditionally, I don’t think other people would necessarily think of them as storytellers.
But it’s one of the few career paths where if you’re not out there telling your story at conferences or with your academic peers or in certain circles, your career will hit a ceiling pretty early on and will stagnate.
So they actually, it’s built in to the career path that you are gonna be getting up in front of an audience and talking about what you do. And there are so many career paths where that does not happen.
So for me, I’m just connecting the dots between something that they actually do, that maybe they’re not that comfortable with, with actually beginning to feel more comfortable on stage and a more positive feedback loop where rather than getting up on stage and then afterwards, they’re not sure how they went, it didn’t feel very good at the time, so then they start beating themselves up about it and they begin to think that they’re a bad storyteller.
We just give them the tools and techniques that Hey, even if you’re not getting something from the audience, this is actually pretty good.
And the three elements that will make any speaker really really good is expertise, and they all have that, right? It’s the preparation and that’s where we focus on, because a lot of them don’t fully understand how to prepare. And the last one is the practice.
So they get up and you know, trial by fire. Some of our events have 200 people in the audience that have paid money to come and see a science comedy show and they get up on stage and they do really really well.
And if you ask them when they get off on stage, get off the stage how they feel. You know, maybe they’ll use the word trauma bonding. You know, it feels really difficult.
But I think six months after when they do have that academic conference to go to, their perspective on it is so different after going through this course.
So that’s where I think the value add is.

Michael (00:13:24)
Yeah, that’s really interesting. I wanted to ask a little bit more about that because I can imagine that getting up there and telling I guess, a funny story about your research is gonna be a great way to really do an impactful talk and that, that carries over to conferences.
So just curious to unpack that a little bit more and I’m just getting my notebook out now.

David (00:13:45)
Yeah, so we teach the speakers a technique in their first two minutes. And that technique can be replicated for a job interview, for academic conference, even for a meeting room. They’re very, very effective to disarm others.
And this is where my background in diplomacy and stakeholder engagement comes in because I’ve seen these techniques being wielded really effectively.
So for example, I used to work very closely with the Americans in diplomacy and they were experts at making us laugh and then immediately asking us for something that we didn’t wanna do.

Michael (00:14:18)
Oh really, that’s…

David (00:14:22)
And because we just laughed, because our delegation was disarmed, when they came in with the ask, it felt like a friend was asking. And if a friend is asking, it’s much harder to say no. And in diplomacy, you know, you never wanna say no.
So we would come in with either a “yes” through gritted teeth or much more likely, we’re gonna come through with a “well, what if we did this for you instead?”
And the Americans probably didn’t want the thing that they were asking for, they were probably overshooting to some degree with the hope that we would meet them halfway, halfway you know, somewhere in the middle.
So that technique of disarming your audiences and disarming people at an academic conference could be the game changer because then people afterwards will feel like you know, I can have a drink at the bar with that person, I can go and approach them and they will.
So if you’re going to an academic conference in order to meet others, build your network, potentially commercialize what you’re researching, find a major partner, find some collaborators, whatever it is, then connecting with your audience is going to be so much more impactful as opposed to lecturing or explaining what you’re doing.
People wanna work with people that they enjoy their company and not necessarily the smartest person in the room.

Jen (00:15:36)
So David, you’re kind of, this is really interesting because you’re suggesting that there are universals out there. And we’re definitely not asking you to disclose your secrets, but this idea of you know, disarming an audience is a universal.
And one of the things that I found really interesting reading up on your work and your website. Your website talks about harnessing comedy will help people to win other people over and to increase your charisma.
And I’m really interested in this idea of charisma because there’s a competition that I was helping, a science speaking competition that I was judging a few years ago. And one of the judging criteria was charisma.
And it led to this fascinating conversation in the judging room later, after all of the research talks, where we had to assign scores for charisma.
And it turned out that the judging panel had completely different perceptions of what was charismatic. So a speaker who I thought was highly charismatic, someone else said “Nah, did nothing for me. I didn’t warm to them at all. I didn’t like it,” you know.
And so, you’re talking about kind of these universal ways of connecting with your audience and allowing your audience to be kind of invested in you, so they’ll then listen to what you say next.
Charisma is obviously, like my story showed me that charisma was a really individual thing. Do you think comedy is a universal kind of foolproof way of changing an audience’s perception of you?

David (00:17:02)
It is a foolproof way. But whether you know, individuals or groups find the same thing funny is different, right? So…

Jen (00:17:10)
Yeah, exactly.

David (00:17:10)
Yes, it is an effective tool. That the intricacy is how you use it and to whom, right? And the manner in which you use it.
But if I’m doing a big purchase, if I’m buying a car, chances are I’m gonna buy that car from a salesperson that I feel more comfortable with.
And there are some very basic elements that will make me feel comfortable with that person. Does that person talk about the car in a way that I see myself as part of that story?
So one of the things that we, you know, really focus on in some of our workshops. So we’ve got a series of one-on-one workshops with all of the people in our science comedy program.
And part of the reason is so that we can have these discussions, which sometimes can feel a little rough for the person in the program, but it’s you know, where am I in that story?
As the audience, how do I fit into your narrative? Do I see myself in your narrative? And if not, why not, right? Can we insert me into your narrative?
Because if I’m part of it, then I wanna be part of the solution as well. And I’m gonna back that story.
So you know, sometimes we’ve got stories, you know, talks on dark matter, on things that are so difficult for an individual to see themselves in, but we can find a way to connect an individual with any story.
And in terms of charisma in and of itself, we would probably define it as somebody who makes you feel comfortable and drawn to them.
And one of the big things that we train people on is smiling on stage. And it’s very difficult for a lot of people to smile on stage.
But if that person on stage feels comfortable, looks comfortable and is inviting you in with a big smile, you’re much more likely to be drawn to them.
Even if that speaker’s narrative is much worse than another speaker’s narrative who isn’t smiling, we’re probably gonna feel much more of a connection with the person who’s smiling.
So little physical elements, which we do teach in the program. Our body posture, how we look at people, our tone of voice, our pacing, all of these elements seem basic from a storytelling perspective. But the reason why we focus on them so much is because they actually invite the audience and draw the audience in. And once the audience is invested, they’re invested and they’re not thinking.
And so more than anything else, we constantly are telling the people in the program, how do we prevent the audience from thinking and just ensure that they’re connecting and simply being and enjoying the talk, similar to enjoying a good film?
You know, you sit back, you relax. You know that the filmmaker’s gonna take care of you. Those actors are fantastic. A bad film, a quarter, halfway through, you’re thinking That doesn’t quite make sense. That acting is wooden.
There’s something about it when we’re absorbing material. Some of it is engrossing and others makes us think. And we wanna engross the audience so that they feel much more connection
and are able to walk away thinking something about the speaker and knowing something about the subject matter, even if it’s one sentence.
If they can say one sentence about the topic a month later, that is a big win for us.

Michael (00:20:08)
Yeah. And I think that’s, you know, oftentimes you think back to a conference you’ve been to and you think about you know, about all the speakers you’ve seen and you can’t remember anything that anyone said.
And maybe if you remember one thing, you’ll say that was great. I took one message home. So it really resonates with me what you’re saying.
And we’ve got a lot of students that listen to the podcast as well. And maybe they’re preparing for a talk or a conference talk. I think one of the things that can get in the way of charisma is sounding scripted when you’re delivering a talk.
‘Cause it’s a challenge, right? The words that you write are different to the words that you would speak as part of a natural conversation.
So I guess part of that challenge is trying to bridge the gap.
How do you view that challenge? You know, is it just about practice? Is it about trying to be conscious of choosing conversational words when you’re preparing a talk? Do you have any advice for that?

David (00:21:06)
Yeah, I would recommend that people who are interested in developing a talk that’s as professional, they’re going to be best served if they write a talk that is as professional as possible, and then focus on delivering that talk in a manner that’s like they’re connecting with somebody or talking with somebody.
So typically when we develop a talk and then we’re practicing it, we might practice in front of the mirror or in our head-on transport.
And we’re imagining an audience in front of us that are people that we’re trying to impress that are sitting there with you know, maybe stern faces staring at us. And we deliver it in that way.
What would happen if in the front row it was full of our best mates? How would we deliver that talk differently? The exact same talk, but now all of a sudden people that really like us are there and they’re nodding and they’re smiling as we’re talking.
And what will happen is we’ll go from presenting to a big audience to now talking to a couple of individuals and our tone will sound different and we’ll really be connecting with them.
Even if we’re using words that we normally wouldn’t use, our pacing will be really different. Our facial expression will be really different. The energy that we have will be different.
And so using that concept of delivering whatever it is as if you already know the audience and as if the audience are individuals rather than a group.
Because when we use a group voice, we sound fake and inauthentic. When we use a personal one-on-one voice, we sound like we’re connecting.
And you know, somebody who used to manage teams and I would have my job interviews with potential people to join my team, I would want to know that that person is connecting with me and then I’ll hire them rather than that person’s being performative. I just, I’m not sure if they’re being performative whether I’m getting the real them.

Michael (00:22:58)
Yeah, yeah. And it’s so hard, isn’t it? It’s automatic.
Telephone voice is something that I call it. And I definitely have telephone voice sometimes.
But yeah, you’re right. It’s about, I think that’s a really good tip, imagining that maybe your friends are in the audience because it’s funny how it could go from being a terrifying scenario to imagine to actually being one that you’re excited about. This is good advice.

David (00:23:21)
And this is where the training, for example, we say “When you’re speaking, nod and smile”. And you’ll begin to see some people who are nodding and smiling back. And you focus on those three or four individuals the entire time, and you’ll sound great.

Michael (00:23:33)
Yeah, OK.

David (00:23:35)
Or if there are people that are wearing something colorful, focus on them. Or if there are people that are very attractive and you wanna impress them, focus on them.
But trying to win over one person who’s got their arms crossed and is scowling, that person might be, they might be enthralled by what you’re saying. You know, I have resting bastard face.
So when I’m concentrating on somebody, I look mad. But that doesn’t mean that I’m not having a good time. In fact, I’m having a great time. It’s just my face.
So if that person is giving their talk focusing on me, they’re gonna be destabilized by me. So don’t use your audience to change how you deliver.
Instead, work out your best mechanism of delivery and then keep on duplicating that. Eventually, you’re gonna find the positive feedback loop where you’ll realise, Okay, when I do these things, it works really well for me. And those people enjoyed it. And I’m gonna talk to them afterwards because they’re gonna give me positive reinforcement.

Jen (00:24:31)
Yeah.

Michael (00:24:31)
There’s a lot going on, isn’t there?
Just kind of imagining like all these different dynamics and how small subtle changes can make a huge difference and you’ve got feedback loops and yeah, it’s fascinating.
And I feel like we could go on and talk about this for forever and ever.
I am conscious of the time though, we are running towards the end of the podcast.
So before we let you go, David, we’d like to shift gears a little bit now and ask you some quick questions to round out the interview.

Michael (00:25:10)
So the first question that I would like to ask is, if you could pick an alternative career to what you’re doing at the moment, what would it be?

David (00:25:20)
I think it’d be great to be in like a team, like a team, like a sports team. So whether it’s me being a soccer player or a football player or something like that.
But I think the comradery that comes with training for something, prepping for something, you know, hopefully winning. I think that’s for me, I think psychologically that would be really tough.
And for me as somebody who you know, had certain doors closed for them when I was younger, that would be really really exciting. Yeah.

Michael (00:25:41)
Yeah.

Jen (00:25:50)
Yeah, I can totally relate. I always look back on my life and think that the things that have been the most rewarding and fun and sometimes challenging were the things that I was doing as part of a team. So I can definitely relate.
This next question might well play into that, thinking about sport. If you could choose to have a superpower, what would you choose?

David (00:26:08)
So look, when I was working in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, I was working at a dance studio as well. And that was a lot of fun.
And there were times when my body let me down. So I was dancing every night, teaching dance. And my body couldn’t necessarily keep up with the demand. So if I could have unlimited endurance, then I’d still be dancing.
And yeah, I just, I think dance is something that is really really fun for a lot of people and shout out to any dancers listening. And if you’d like to give something a go where you do meet a lot of people and you do keep fit and you look great afterwards, then get into dancing.

Jen (00:26:41)
Excellent. Love it.

Michael (00:26:43)
That’s a great answer. We haven’t had unlimited endurance yet, but I like it. I want some of that.
OK David, if you could go back in time and give yourself a message at the age of 21, what would you say?

David (00:26:55)
I’d probably like to think about that for a while ’cause I’m annoying. But instantly, I’d probably say, “Don’t let others define you”, yeah? So we all have a lot of great things to give to the world.
And so many times we’re influenced by the people around us. And sometimes they can be enablers and sometimes they can be walls.
And if you are surrounded by some walls, whether it is you know, somebody that you need to work with very closely and they’re telling you that you’re only capable and okay to do certain things, I wouldn’t necessarily let that hold you back.
Yeah, stretch. Go as far as you can without hurting yourself or others and then come back and see where you land.
But push through those walls, try new things. Try everything for the first time and then see who you are. Don’t try to let others define what you can and can’t do.

Michael (00:27:44)
Yep.

Jen (00:27:44)
Hmm, that is an excellent message, David. I love it. Thank you.
Next question. What do you think makes a good science communicator?

David (00:27:53)
Ooh, definitely being able to see their science or the world through their audience’s perspective no matter how rough it is.
But that will make you really impactful because you’ll be able to change what you’re saying to any audience and you’ll develop a lot of great tools and great skills as well.

Jen (00:28:11)
Excellent.

Michael (00:28:12)
Final question. For someone who thinks that it’s a scary thing, especially comedy, what would be one top tip that you would say to someone who’s maybe a bit apprehensive about putting themselves out there? What would you say to them?

David (00:28:24)
So sometimes I use a bit of an analogy where you know, [if you have] those dreams sometimes where you go to school or something, work, whatever it is, and you’re naked and you’re really embarrassed because everybody can see that you’re naked. Going on stage is a bit like that.
Yeah, if you feel like you’re naked on stage, people are gonna watch you and potentially they’re gonna judge you and you’re gonna feel that because you’re inviting that judgment because of your behavior on stage. It’s subtle, but it’s there.
Whereas if somebody is naked and they walk up to you and they’re very intensely looking at you, you’re not gonna judge them. You’re gonna be trying to look here, there and everywhere and get away from them. And getting up on stage can be a bit like that as well.
So if you need to communicate with somebody, if you zero in on them and really try to connect with them and communicate with them, they’re not gonna have the ability to judge you because they won’t be able to think. Because they’re too busy getting all of your, the information that you’re giving them because you’re really looking at them. You’re not looking away. You’re really trying to connect with them.
And they’re gonna resonate with what you’re saying. And what you’re saying is built on a lifetime of expertise that you put blood, sweat and tears into.
So if you can focus a little bit less on yourself and focus more on the feelings of other people, it’s going to be a much more positive experience for you.
If you focus on your own feelings, sometimes we’re not very good at judging how well we do and we feel, when we’re outside of our comfort zone, we feel negative.
So therefore we’re gonna begin thinking that our public speaking is a negative experience or putting ourselves in a position where we need to be in presenter mode, like a job interview. It’s a negative experience.
But if we’re trying to connect with the other people, we’re gonna start finding that it’s a positive experience and they’re smiling and they’re nodding, if we’re focusing on them and we’re smiling and nodding as well.

Jen (00:30:07)
Well, David, you are making us smile and nod because we are so delighted that we got to connect with you. And thank you for taking the time to share your lifetime of expertise and blood, sweat, and tears with us.
I think there’s a lot of really amazing information in that conversation that can help us all to think a lot more about how we serve our audiences and how we can bring people to want to invest in us and the things that we care about.
So massive thanks, David. That was really wonderful.

David (00:30:35)
Ah, Thanks for having me, Jen and Michael. [It’s] been great.

Michael (00:30:38)
Thanks, David. It’s been a pleasure.

Jen (00:31:00)
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Let’s Talk SciComm from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I’m Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:31:14)
And if you’ve enjoyed listening to this episode, we’d love you to share it with your friends and family. We’d love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at LetsTalkSciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen (00:31:28)
And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast.
So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend, but we’d also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review.
Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review. And we’re going to keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.
We’re thinking about some merch. And we’d also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:32:04)
Ooh, prizes. And if… They sound great. And if you’d like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we’d love to hear from you. Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com. And as always, a huge thank you to our production team Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.